Square Rigger kit-18 Gun Brig-of-war of 1797 - Page 51 - RC Groups
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Dec 01, 2007, 05:43 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
If you put an eye on the deck as per detail 'B' does put the lead in a position to come up a little more in the wind?

On the Emma C. Berry I built many years ago, I had the single jib tied to the center I think. I was able to only operate the rudder, so getting it to tack was not so easy because I could not get it to turn fast enough some times, but it would always come up on the wind where I wanted it even if I had to run a short way to get it to turn up. I assume that a square rigging will be more difficult but with the ability to take in on the jibs it should turn better. Is that correct?
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Dec 01, 2007, 06:54 PM
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DanL's Avatar
I didn't get the jibs operational til the last two outings, and had a connection failure on the first of those. So I have very little experience with the fully controlled crossover jibs.
I do know that I can adjust her sails on almost any heading to get pretty straight tracking. I attribute that to the original ship design and to Philip's pretty darn great translation to 1/25th scale.
I'm not claiming any great sailing expertise at all, but the SC&H brig, if given anything close to a steady breeze - even very light, but steady - will tack on a dime. She's 80lbs and has th momentum to carry thru. Using the fore and mainsails to bring her around works great. I imagine your larger frigate will handle very well.
Being close enough to see the sails is critical. Until I got out in a kayak, sailing was frustrating. Being near enough to hear her cut thru the water and to hear the wind hum in her rigging is amazing. Favorite thing is to bring her right toward the kayak and have her speed by.
Already counting the days til soft water...

I'm going to re-rig th jibs per plan B for next spring.
Dec 01, 2007, 07:38 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
DanL, once you get this the way you are thinking, please take a few photos and I will put them in my binder so when I get to that stage I will try to do this.

We have a peddle boat that might work if we go out to the lake, but I can learn to sail in the neighbor's pond, about 300'X200' or so. I will have to learn how to sail myself.

My former employer, several people at the firm and I rented a 50' boat on the Chesapeake a few years ago. It was during a weekend that they had some tall ships in the Baltimore harbor and we sailed around most of them. He taught me a fair bit about sailing during that and several other trips, it certainly gets into one's blood. It is the same for steam locomotives and parachutes for me. I am really looking forward to building and sailing this ship.

Thank you for the help. RG
Dec 03, 2007, 09:50 AM
Paratrooper's Avatar
DanL, did you get another servo to operate the jibs? If so, did you send for one equal to what was sent with the kit or did you use another type? I am way ahead of actually installing anything because the kit won't get here until late January, but I am putting information in a binder to help when I do get started. Thanks! RG
Dec 03, 2007, 12:18 PM
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DanL's Avatar
PT -
The jib servo is a Hitec HS785HB sail winch - 3.5 revs each direction - slow with good power. Details in an earlier post:
I modified the other two sail servos (the fore and main servos included with the kit) to rotate a full 180 deg vs the std 120 deg. This, combined with reels vs arms on the servos, allowed the use of braces attached near the yard ends. A lot of extra work, but I'm very happy with the precision of yard rotation control.
Note: As a safeguard (I burned out one servo when the spanker sheet got tangled in the stern davits I unwisely added), I installed separate fuses on each servo (use 2.5 to 3A) in addition to a master circuit fuse (8A). If a fuse blows, I now know I have a problem somewhere in the rigging before I see smoke.
Dec 03, 2007, 12:34 PM
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DanL's Avatar
PT - Christmas is coming - time to ask for tools before the Jan delivery!
Things I've found helpful:
Dremel Stylus battery powered roto tool
Set of many various shape cutting heads for the Stylus
A battery operated line trimmer (home-made)
Small drill bit set
Benchtop sander - disc/belt
Small bench vise
Assortment of clamps of many of all types
OptoVisor magnifier (think that's the name)
Digital camera for build pics for posting discoveries/asking questions on this thread
Foam sanding blocks, foam sanding sheets
JB Quick epoxy
West Marine epoxy and filler
Plenty of thin and thick CA
And my favorite: plenty of Krylon camo black and brown (very flat), various other Krylon colors as needed and Krylon clear matte as the protective/waterproof coat.
Dec 03, 2007, 02:59 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
I have all the tools you have listed and then some. I have been custom painting brass locomotives for about 15 years and the tools accumulate. All the rest of the stuff is available locally so I should be OK. Thanks for the list. RG
Dec 03, 2007, 04:28 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
DanL, I have printed the page you refer to regarding the sail winch. Right now I do not know the difference, but do I understand correctly that the winches that come with the kit need modification to work properly? Should I be looking at getting all the winches I need from one source, and look for the "The jib servo is a Hitec HS785HB sail winch - 3.5 revs each direction - slow with good power."? Are the servos that come with the kit a slow motion type of winch? If so, what is involved in modifications? I am very ignorant of all this as I have not fooled with RC for about 30-years, the last boat I had needed only rudder control. Thanks for the help, I do appreciate it. RG
Dec 03, 2007, 04:32 PM
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DanL's Avatar
PT -
OK, then, how about a small lathe and milling machine?
Darn - you have a Surprise AND all the tools in the world...
happy for you, but still a bit envious....
Dec 03, 2007, 04:54 PM
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DanL's Avatar


The servos as supplied by SC&H are perfectly fine for building the kit per instructions. Adding separately controlled jibs was an option I added, and for the design approach I used, a sail winch (a servo specially designed to rotate many revs to wind sail sheets a great length)was required. To control the yards on the brig, regular servos are supplied. Regular servos are typically set up to rotate in a range from about +/-30 degrees (60 total) to +/-90 degrees (180 total), depending on the servo and options chosen. Because every transmitter is different and every servo is not perfectly centered or ranged electronically, 120 to 140 total degrees rotation is a typical maximum provided by servo mfgrs. because of mechanical limitation in the servo (specifically, the max rotation of the internal potentiometer). A given Tx and servo combination might try to exceed the internal mechanical stops if the signal calls for over rotation. Servos that provide beyond 180 deg will ahve a special pot or are set up with an external potentiometer.
Back to your servos - the Hitec's provided are very powerful and will do the job. If you get into construction modifications that might require more than the original rotation (I think it's 120 or 140), the servos can be modified to rotate to nearly 180 by opening them up and installing matched 2k ohm resistors in series in the pot leads. But then you need a Tx that can finely tune and hold the calibration for each channel, electronically centering and ranging the modified servos so they don't exceed the maximum mechanical range of the servo in either direction.
Anyway, keeping to the original plan is a good bet.
For good large servo tech info and prices, see:
Servo City has been a great supplier - great tech help, good prices, esp when they have sales, and extensive info on their product pages.
Dec 03, 2007, 04:57 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
DL, the lathe and mill are still on the fringes, but I have become adept in turning using a drill and file or saw, and milling using the Foredom flexicable machine. Tell you what I would be willing to trade though if you would like the experience: I got severe Shingles in February, the blisters are gone but the residue pain remains. I could trade those for something simple.

I am like a kid waiting for this kit. Being retired and needing something new to do is all the qualifications I have to build this thing, but I am sure I can get the hang of it once I learn to speak the language. RG
Dec 03, 2007, 05:08 PM
Registered User
DanL's Avatar
RG - I've heard bad things about shingles. Sorry to hear you had it.
Read the posts by Ray and Brooks and look for the books they recommend. A couple good references help with learning the lingo and the sailing techniques. Philips site has some good references too.
You can start reading up. You're building the ship that you will eventually sail. You can build per the instructions - heavy on the philosophy of keeping detail simple and building the model for fast setup and takedown and EZ sailability. If you get into detail as shown on your model RR site, then your ship might end up somewhat like mine - added detail, electrical and mechanical mods, more complex to set up, but a whole dimension of an added sense of reality, esp. in photography.
Anyway, the kit has so many possibilities that you will find your finished model extremely personalized and unique, and find yourself at a whole new place in modelling skill and accomplishment.
Hope all this distracts from the pain...
Dec 03, 2007, 05:17 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
I just visited the site you sent. Before I did not have a clue, now I am in the woods without a clue.

I guess I will just head toward the shooting and start the war from there. UFFDA!
Dec 03, 2007, 05:28 PM
Paratrooper's Avatar
I have ordered "ANATOMY OF THE SHIP" and it should be in next week.

We did order the crew figures for the ship, but other than that I will probably stick close to the plans. We have learned to "Snooker the eye" with photos on our model railroad, but everything there can be stable. The people figures stay on the platform or sidewalk and the automobiles haven't moved in years, with the ship it will be different.

I am going to try to build the rudder motors, I have some can motors that are quite powereful that are used in model locomotives, and I can get them with extended shafts so I might be able to fit the propellor directly to the shaft after running it through the seal.

Regarding the Shingles....women have always told me that we men do not understand pain until we give birth....well I can tell you that women who have had both experiences have indicated strongly that child birth was easy in comparison, but we men are never going to win that argument.
Dec 04, 2007, 10:13 AM
Registered User
I had shingles 20 years ago, and I live in fear that they will return one of these days! I hope they go well for you.

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