Model Plane Crash Kills Two In Hungary - Page 3 - RC Groups
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May 16, 2006, 12:26 AM
Charged up and buzzing
vampire67's Avatar
There are some early replies on the Geman Model accociation: http://www.modellflug-im-daec.de/

According to ealy information there had been radio interference with a local radio station at the same [!??] frequency band.

kind regards Peter
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May 16, 2006, 12:41 AM
Homo Modelicus
BaZsiX's Avatar
The MTI reported that the modeller get back his passport.

Few years ago a hungarian truck driver killed few people in sweden. He can't leave the country too.

Ralf,

my english is not so good. Sorry about this.

You mean that in some country (like Hungary), when an accident happened because the program wasn't safe, the insurance will be expensive? To make exhibition will be more difficult? If yes, I think yes.

Before 1989, the modeling was regulated in my country. There was a federal club which manage this. But after the CCCP has collapsed and this was vanished... I know too few about this, because I'm modelling since 2004 only. But since then I see that here is a chaos about this sport. We have got a lot of club and modeller. The most of them fly where they can. We haven't got perfect model airfields. The most of the modeler has got enough money to buy expensive ARF models and stuffs. But I think they never pay mothly for a model airfield. I hope after this accident the staff of the Hungarian Modeller Alliance will think about this. And the leaders of the small club will too. And the modeller too.

The people see only that after this accident, how dangereous this kind of sport. The TV helped them of this

I'm a member of a hungarian model club. After this accident I will search the default rules of the hungarian modelling. It is my fault that I didn't read them yet... And I try to help the others to make this sport more carefully.

I hope all of you can understand what I would like to say.

Balazs
May 16, 2006, 03:53 AM
Registered User
As Insurance Companies operate world-wide I think we can safely say that no modeller can consider him/herself immune from the fall out from incidents of this nature.
Perhaps what does worry me regarding this particular crash is that two comments have been made regarding a radio station and the possibility of taxi CB radio. As none of us know the truth at this time and maybe never will this does highlight a specific need to scan frequencies prior to holding this sort of display to see if clean air is available. Second to scan continuously during the display and furthermore hold good separation between crowds and flightline. None of these will totally prevent an accident but they may reduces the chances of one taking place or eliminate the involvement of the spectators.
If Peter's post regarding the radio station is accurate then it was irresponsible for that flier or any other to perform under those conditions. And sorry, if he did not know then he should have taken steps to find out what local conditions were like.
May 16, 2006, 05:31 AM
UN Earth peoples true enemy
treehog's Avatar

In lots of Euopean countries the modellers frequencys are being stepped on for...


At most of these events they have freqency monitering devices that have several times forced events to stop before they began until they identified the source of the radio freqency problem but sometimes its sun spots or some source that cant be traced

In lots of Euopean countries the modellers frequencys are being stepped on for all sorts of reasons and often the worst offenders are Embassies and diplomatic cars and forgien visiting armies in transit or on exersise or old equipment that got past the scapping order by mistake can or will use a freqency that is licenced in thier country in another state who uses a differnt freqency and Italy is rampant with pirate stations as they go through total radio freqency anachy as the paging companies steal or buy the modellers freqencies and if your close to borders or embassies your risks are higher and Europe is tiny compared to America or Australia so to get clean radio super garenteed freqencies without any gliches is like trying to find the extint dodo so they often opt for other more proven solutions that usually work while the interference event occors such as slower more stable planes twin radio transmitter and reciever units PCM etc

However in theory a passing taxi on a nearby road which has a 20 year old lineer amplifier of 1kw or worse more sitting in the car park which hasnt been tuned in twenty years can cause a total radio blanket affect to supress FM signals and splatter affects on several freqencies negating twin freqency systems and causing PCM to kick in but then with 1 kw signals the servo wires will act like antennas and do any thing they want negating the PCM instructions and if similar incidents like this ever have taken place they were lucky in the planes were higher up and recovered or crashed away from spectators
Unfortunatly glitch counters are fairly new devices

Lots of places in the world still have millions of CB radios of way past throw away date that are used every day in many countries and sometimes these powerful signals can with skip cause affects some few miles away

modelers had to move of 27 mghz and onto other freqencies when planes stated to tumble and with newwer radio such as spectrum or similar in the pipe line we can expect a brighter future for radio control if and the big if the el cheapo brigrade are not allowed to high jack the agenda and insist that thier never been serviced 19 dot bang bang rc units are every bit as good as todays radio units and splatter dosnt affect them so sod off why should they replace thier RC unit every twenty years and why would you bother to service something every few years if it works

And that attidude exists a lot with the 27 CB brigade world wide splatter dosnt affect them so sod off

Ralf
May 16, 2006, 07:39 AM
Homo Modelicus
BaZsiX's Avatar
Here is the nicer side of the model airshow of Öcsény:

http://taszarhse.hu/szakosztalyok/mo..._13/index.html
May 16, 2006, 08:08 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaZsiX

I hope all of you can understand what I would like to say.

Balazs
I easily understood everything you had to say.

Wiz
May 16, 2006, 11:09 AM
Registered User
Ralf, If you have all of this interference where you fly why would you have a rc air show in the first place? If someone in a taxi with a cb can shoot down a 50 lb. plane that's going 100 plus mph and kill two people something is wrong here. If this is a common know fact that this can happen then the spectators should have been at least a 1/4 mile away not right at the flight line. It's easy to see this after the fact. But you are saying this is common in Europe. So not only are the pilots at fault but the people that put the show on as well. The only ones not at fault are the spectators. They are not in the hobby. And had no idea of the dangers of what our planes can do. Plus they were invited to the show. And I'll bet nobody told them about all the radio interference in your area. And what a out of control plane can do.

My heart goes out to all the people affected by this tragic event. I hope this never ever happens again.
May 16, 2006, 01:01 PM
Registered User
Here's a rough tanslation of the link: http://www.modellflug-im-daec.de/

Quote
--------------------------
The model flight club Szekszárd had organised past Saturday afternoon a flight show on the large former military airfield Öcsény. As a Stefan W. of the DAeC Luftsport, federation Bavaria association flew his second flight he had a sudden and total loss of control on his aerobatics model Pitts S12 with four-cycle combustion engine (span 2.50 m, approx. 20 kg weight). The fail safe funtion switched on at approximately 20 m height ; driven off by the cross-wind the model flew uncontrolled from the airfield to several hundred meters away into the crowd and impacted there. It broke a panic off; a married couple was killed, four further humans was hurt. The police drove off the unfortunate pilot in handcuffs. Video material was broadcasted over a Hungarian television channel proved that he had flown the fastidious aerobatics program far from the spectators. Only after the loss of the control did the model turn in the crowds direction. Stefan W. was convinced that only a substantial interference resulted in the complete loss of control. This interference was proven free of doubts the following Monday and again on Tuesday morning by the public prosecutor's office. A Hungarian expert and the father of Stefan W, traveled with a scanner from Germany. - Stefan W.' s plane naturally uses 35MHz frequency. The European Radiocommunications Committee recommends all European Union states to reserve it exclusively for model aircrafts. Also Hungary is European Union member.
Overlapping of the frequency however was transmitted by a strong, regional Radio broadcaster in Szekszárd, in particular the channels 61, 62 and 63 were completely disturbed in the change. The plane of Stefan W. works on channel 62. On Monday evening the public prosecutor's office apologized officially with Stefan W. for the unfair treatment and returned his passport. A bail, about which the police wanted to negotiate after provisional release on Sunday, was no more an issue. Which Radio broadcaster it concerns, which switches itself on so suddenly, has not been released by the Hungarian authorities. Stefan W. is a very experienced model pilot, who won prizes with his demonstrations several times „Best OF show “. It was already his third time in Szekszárd . In order to prepare himself for the show, he had traveled one week in advance, and trained the days up to the Flight show. He was conscious that the Hungarian legislation is not a guarantee to unimpaired 35 MHz frequency. Just to protect his valuable model, range tests with a light electrical model belong to his routine prior each flight day. He had not noticed the smallest disturbance during the entire entire week up to Friday afternoon and Saturday where isolated small interferences occured, up to the misfortunate flight. - The flight line of the model flight club Szekszárd held the usual safety routine with the check of the frequencies and the delivery of the transmitters, however no scanner had been used. Gerhard Wöbbeking Member of the executive committee that DAeC sport specialized group Modellflug
-----------------------------------------------------------


Seems like the case is pretty much solved - and no mention of taxi.
May 16, 2006, 01:15 PM
Panda Panda Panda Panda Panda
rdwoebke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by air mail rcg
If someone in a taxi with a cb can shoot down a 50 lb. plane that's going 100 plus mph and kill two people something is wrong here. If this is a common know fact that this can happen then the spectators should have been at least a 1/4 mile away not right at the flight line.
My heart also goes out to the families of the deceased.

Keep in mind, it can't be that common, else people would not be risking large expensive models. And just like most disasters, a lot of things went wrong in unison for this to happen. Had the model lost control at a slightly different attitude/direction, probably it would have just ended in a bad crash for the model. But like Ralf said, in Europe illegal/unexpected transmission on RC channels *can* happen. Not that it always happens or even happens that often. Large events like this will be equipped with scanners and it sounds like the pilot did quite a bit to safety check his model. And, judging by the photos flight lines and spectator areas were setup and it at least seems done safely.

This event was tragic, no doubt about it. And we on this board probably don’t have the entire story.

Ryan
May 16, 2006, 03:44 PM
Registered User
The problem is "pilots" of airplanes have no real qualifications to backup their skills.

Real pilots have a rigorous test every year i believe to ensure they have a license to fly at shows in the UK.
May 16, 2006, 03:59 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla
The problem is "pilots" of airplanes have no real qualifications to backup their skills.

Real pilots have a rigorous test every year i believe to ensure they have a license to fly at shows in the UK.
Give me a break, do you actually think this guy did not have the correct skills?
May 16, 2006, 04:05 PM
Flying motor mount master
fly_boy99's Avatar
Too bad his skills didn't keep his model away from spectators.

Safety first. Models can be rebuilt and replaced. Humans cannot.
May 16, 2006, 04:59 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdwoebke
My heart also goes out to the families of the deceased.

Keep in mind, it can't be that common, else people would not be risking large expensive models. And just like most disasters, a lot of things went wrong in unison for this to happen. Had the model lost control at a slightly different attitude/direction, probably it would have just ended in a bad crash for the model. But like Ralf said, in Europe illegal/unexpected transmission on RC channels *can* happen. Not that it always happens or even happens that often. Large events like this will be equipped with scanners and it sounds like the pilot did quite a bit to safety check his model. And, judging by the photos flight lines and spectator areas were setup and it at least seems done safely.

This event was tragic, no doubt about it. And we on this board probably don’t have the entire story.

Ryan
Ryan, In the post before yours it states that NO scanner was used. If illegal/unexpected transmissions happen in Europe the very minimum would be to use a scanner. If a simple scanner was not used then I have some real problems with this event.
May 16, 2006, 08:12 PM
Mars People
That was a horrible accident. I just hope it never happens again. Thats a grim reminder to always be careful, even with models.
Now they will ban RC planes, eh? Well, that is if the U.S. media gets a wiff of this. Anything that can cause an accident and is expensive (ex: guns) will be restricted and the like...
May 16, 2006, 09:19 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_boy99
Too bad his skills didn't keep his model away from spectators.

Safety first. Models can be rebuilt and replaced. Humans cannot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla
The problem is "pilots" of airplanes have no real qualifications to backup their skills.

Real pilots have a rigorous test every year i believe to ensure they have a license to fly at shows in the UK.
Might want to read the whole thread over if you intend on slamming the pilot. It went into lock mode, noone can do anything about that. Wait for all the information to come in before you start picking at things that strongly, same goes especially for you Dogzilla. Model aircraft and full scale aircraft are on entirely different levels. If you think that just because someone has an accident that's all you need to declare they're a poor pilot, shame on you. People could have very easily "declared" it murder if they were so inclinded. From the looks of the in flight video, and from what has been reported about his flight experience, it sounds like he was one of the few that gets to fly often enough to know his model more than well.

Anyone remember the Olympic Bombings in 2000? The guy who didn't do it lost his job, lost his family and friends, people sensationalized and pulled ideas about the poor guy from their and he wasn't even the bomber, he was just pointing out a suspicious package and boom. There are still nutjobs out there who think he did it. Don't accuse the pilot of anything yet, innocent till proven guilty, and it's pretty clear at this point there's not much of anything going against him. While murder and incompetance are not nearly on the same plane, you should have a very good knowledge of what I and others are trying to discourage.

I don't know if I should or shouldn't be surprised that the pilot got arrested immediately, and had a bail set... glad they appologized to him. Standard proceedure for that country I guess? I can't say that's what would happen in America, what about U.K. and Canada or anyplace else?

It sounds like that country has some serious issues with regulating their frequency control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CANNONBOY37
Now they will ban RC planes, eh? Well, that is if the U.S. media gets a wiff of this. Anything that can cause an accident and is expensive (ex: guns) will be restricted and the like...
Uh, let's not go there just yet... that's really pushing it!
Last edited by Accu157; May 16, 2006 at 09:38 PM.


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