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Nov 23, 2012, 11:12 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
I honestly don't think this is all the fault of the plane. It was a great idea to put ailerons and no dihedral in it, but I think that is your culprit. If you built it the way it supposed to be.... rudder and elevator only with plenty of dihedral I don't think there would be so much stress on the wings. The beauty of a Tiger Moth kit is to have it fly very slowly with rudder and elevator only. I'm not knocking your build by any means. If you try to keep it at about 8 or 9 oz there will be a lot less chance of breaking the wings at that point.
I have a bashed TM with ailerons and flat wing. It has to fly faster than a normal TM. It does not break the wings on landing even tho most of my landings are flips. I did make the wings 4 bay and have brace wires holding the wings in place. I still wonder if the paint he used attacked the foam and made it brittle.
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Nov 23, 2012, 11:38 AM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
The Enemy's Avatar
It is also painted on the underside of the wings from what I see in that last photo. That adds LOTS of weight!

Corey
Nov 23, 2012, 12:33 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Enemy
It is also painted on the underside of the wings from what I see in that last photo. That adds LOTS of weight!

Corey
All my bashed TM are painted on the underside of the wings, fuselage, and tail. Also I have printed paper stickers on them. The one in the picture has bombs under the wing, guns, wood landing gear, and 2 pilots, It weights 13oz. I do not have any trouble with the wings breaking. There has to be something wrong with the foam in his plane.
Nov 23, 2012, 12:40 PM
Registered User
This TM weights 12oz but does not have ailerons.
Nov 23, 2012, 01:54 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by degreen60
This TM weights 12oz but does not have ailerons.
I guess there are different loads for different planes. I have a TM that weighs in at 12oz... but it also feels sluggish in the air, even with a brushless. The ideal weight for a stock TM is about 8 oz on the IPS motor that it came with. That light weight actually makes the plane fly better. If you want to do rolls, etc you should try a 3D Tiger Moth. I have one and it has huge ailerons, a 350 brushed motor, and massive tail control surfaces. It does all sorts of tricks and it's very strong. But, I don't fly it because it just isn't a Moth.
Nov 23, 2012, 03:07 PM
AllAloneInSpaceAndTime
The Enemy's Avatar
Mine weighs in at 6.75oz all up. (eflite 800mAh 2s) It has no paint...

Corey
Nov 23, 2012, 06:42 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz
But, I don't fly it because it just isn't a Moth.
Ahem....ahem.......

MCLARKSON: It may be a possibility that the wings on your Moth, most notably the bottom wings, have been weakened at the point where the aileron cut-out starts. In essence, the wing cord length is shorter at that point, thus more sensitive to wing loads. Just a thought. Personally, I like the look and feel of the original "thin" wing, and have been fortunate enough to not experience a complete wing fracture such as you have. Most of my Moth landings are nose-overs", courtesy of the grass on my runway. No wing damage as a result. However, I did earn the "DS of the Year" award the day I hand launched my Moth from the rear deck, and never did a pre-flight. I use Channel 54 for several planes, and thus the elevator and rudder actuation was 180 degrees backwards. My dear Moth bounced off the side of the garage and made a forceable landing in the blackberry patch. Yes there was damage, but not a complete wing fracture. To the best of my knowledge, which I owe to the many participants on this thread, the aileron conversions on the Pico Tiger Moth have rarely been all that successful. FWIW.

RD
Latest blog entry: Big Red Cadillac
Nov 23, 2012, 06:59 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell
To the best of my knowledge, which I owe to the many participants on this thread, the aileron conversions on the Pico Tiger Moth have rarely been all that successful. FWIW.

RD
The Moth bash Brequet 14 that I put ailerons on flys like it is on rails but still needs lots of rudder. If I try to roll it goes into a dive in the middle of the roll. The only advantage I like about adding ailerons is the wing looks nice flat. The next TM SPAD bash I did, I did not add ailerons. I plan on bashing a TM into a Swordfish next. Will have to deside if I want to have ailerons. I know I have to mod the top wing and the mod might help ailerons work better.
Nov 24, 2012, 12:04 AM
Must not buy more planes!
mclarkson's Avatar
Mine seems to fly just fine. Here's its maiden (before I mounted the LG).
GWS Pico Tiger Moth - Ailerons - Maiden Flight (3 min 30 sec)


Just tryin' to decide if the next step is to try and fix the wings or what...
Nov 24, 2012, 08:33 AM
Registered User
kerwin50's Avatar
well I had to order some props. My LHS can't seem to get them.
I can't weight to get my little tm in the air and start training.
Nov 24, 2012, 10:29 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell
Ahem....ahem.......

MCLARKSON: It may be a possibility that the wings on your Moth, most notably the bottom wings, have been weakened at the point where the aileron cut-out starts. In essence, the wing cord length is shorter at that point, thus more sensitive to wing loads. Just a thought. Personally, I like the look and feel of the original "thin" wing, and have been fortunate enough to not experience a complete wing fracture such as you have. Most of my Moth landings are nose-overs", courtesy of the grass on my runway. No wing damage as a result. However, I did earn the "DS of the Year" award the day I hand launched my Moth from the rear deck, and never did a pre-flight. I use Channel 54 for several planes, and thus the elevator and rudder actuation was 180 degrees backwards. My dear Moth bounced off the side of the garage and made a forceable landing in the blackberry patch. Yes there was damage, but not a complete wing fracture. To the best of my knowledge, which I owe to the many participants on this thread, the aileron conversions on the Pico Tiger Moth have rarely been all that successful. FWIW.

RD
Very good point, Doug. That's why the 3D moth does not have cut outs for the ailerons. The ailerons are almost an inch wide and are hinged at the back of the wing. They actually strengthen the wings. Notice also that there is no foil to the wings. Both are perfectly flat planks which do not even fit into the wing saddles. Maybe McClarkson should look into more of a 3D wing build. (?)

Buzz
Nov 24, 2012, 11:24 AM
Registered User
Pat Daily's Avatar
mclarkson

Watching your video of the moth, I can understand why the wings might fail. I don't think these planes were designed to fly quite fast or to fly inverted and pull high g loops. They are slow flyers and loops have to be carefully done to avoid snapping a wing. The ailerons clearly allow rolls, but also weaken the wing strength. Perhaps is you use a carbon rod for the leading edge and the trailing edge it would help. I used carbon leading and trailing edges on one of my 9 moths and the wing has held up for 10 years. My $0.02 worth!
Nov 24, 2012, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Daily
mclarkson

Watching your video of the moth, I can understand why the wings might fail. I don't think these planes were designed to fly quite fast or to fly inverted and pull high g loops. They are slow flyers and loops have to be carefully done to avoid snapping a wing. The ailerons clearly allow rolls, but also weaken the wing strength. Perhaps is you use a carbon rod for the leading edge and the trailing edge it would help. I used carbon leading and trailing edges on one of my 9 moths and the wing has held up for 10 years. My $0.02 worth!
You are correct the Moth does need some kind of reinforcing if you do any flying but flat and slow. I found out the hard way by looping my first Moth. Now I add brace wires to stop the wings from flexing and haven't broken a wing sense except in a crash. The TMs I have bashed into something else had broken wings(and everything else, one was missing the nose). I repair the wings with Gorilla glue and have not had a glued joint fail.
Nov 24, 2012, 11:55 AM
Come fly with us in Henryetta
I do not have any trouble with folding wings at all doing loops. And I do not add anything to make them stronger. I do how ever modulate throttle while doing loops. Using power when I need it. And pulling back on power for instance on the down line of the loop.

I make it a point to do things as smoothly as possible. I think sudden abrupt moves are what causes a lot of failures. I also do what I can to keep the plane as light as possible. The biggest pack I use is a 600 mah 3s lipo. I have a Himaxx brushless in both of our TMs and I get plenty of power and 20 minutes is a normal flight for me. I can go much longer but don't want to most of the time.
Nov 24, 2012, 01:07 PM
Registered User
...dup


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