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Dec 06, 2011, 03:03 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Daily View Post
Here is more activity from last Saturday
http://dcmaxecuter.org/024DECEMBER20...PHOTOPAGE.html
Boy, that's a motley looking gang! lol I am in love with that HP8... what a beauty. I really like the FF and the rubber band powered planes. I must have build 50 J-3 rubber powered free flights when I was a kid. I still have two that I never built... the Aeronca K float plane kit... and the Nieuport II. They're both old Comet kits.

Buzz
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Dec 07, 2011, 09:18 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Daily View Post
Here is more activity from last Saturday
http://dcmaxecuter.org/024DECEMBER20...PHOTOPAGE.html
Pat:

Really great photo's. Thanks for sharing them.

Question? Is it me, or do your Moths have more dihedral built into one or more of them? My Moth has a much straighter top wing, not completely flat, but not as much dihedral as what appears with one or more of your great looking Moths.

RD
Latest blog entry: Big Red Cadillac
Dec 07, 2011, 10:20 PM
Registered User
Pat Daily's Avatar
Doug

I don't know about the dihedral--usually I use the plastic piece glued to the center section of the lower wing to set the dihedral. Some of the moths have had less some more--I don't really pay much attention to it.
Dec 09, 2011, 10:35 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell View Post
Pat:

Really great photo's. Thanks for sharing them.

Question? Is it me, or do your Moths have more dihedral built into one or more of them? My Moth has a much straighter top wing, not completely flat, but not as much dihedral as what appears with one or more of your great looking Moths.

RD
Hmmmm... that made me go look at the wings on my Moths. The 3D moth has NO dihedral... the 25ft has about what Pat is using. And the other one looks like it has less. I think Pat is right. It almost doesn't matter. Ha.
I did a loop one day and my wings folded....they were shaped like a "V"... but it kept on flying great. I flew the entire battery pack with it like that....
Dec 09, 2011, 08:32 PM
Elfi Flyer
Doug Sipprell's Avatar
My Moth has some dihedral in the wings, more on the bottom wing than the top. Not exactly sure why, but she flys just great. Maybe this arrangement helps with those high altitude flights! (over 25 feet...... )


RD
Latest blog entry: Big Red Cadillac
Dec 10, 2011, 08:01 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sipprell View Post
My Moth has some dihedral in the wings, more on the bottom wing than the top. Not exactly sure why, but she flys just great. Maybe this arrangement helps with those high altitude flights! (over 25 feet...... )


RD
As can be seen in the attached drawings, your arrangement is quite true
to scale! (The real reason for this was to help the pilot keep his lower wing-
tips from contacting the earth, during ground maneuvers).
Dec 10, 2011, 11:56 AM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer31 View Post
As can be seen in the attached drawings, your arrangement is quite true
to scale! (The real reason for this was to help the pilot keep his lower wing-
tips from contacting the earth, during ground maneuvers).
There is another biplane I've seen... can't remember the name... but it had a lot of dihedral in the lower wings and absolutely none on the top wing. I think more dihedral makes the plane more stable... but that's just me.
Dec 12, 2011, 11:41 AM
Registered User
7car7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
There is another biplane I've seen... can't remember the name... but it had a lot of dihedral in the lower wings and absolutely none on the top wing. I think more dihedral makes the plane more stable... but that's just me.
Dihedral does make it more stable, but in our case, (3 channel Moth), it makes the plane BANK when using only rudder. That's why these things turn so well with just rudder.

If you had no dihedral, the plane would just skid sideways, and eventually turn. With the dihedral, when you present the side of the plane (or wingtip) to the direction of the air flow, the dihedral causes the on-coming air to go UNDER the wing on the now more forward tip. At the same time, the opposite wing now sees pressure on TOP of the wing. In a left rudder input, the right wing now goes up, the left wing now gets pushed down.

Now here's the really cool part - join that stuff with the fact that we have swept wings. Now, the wing that's going up (the right wing) is now presenting it's full length to the on-coming air flow. The Left wing, because of sweep, is now being seen as a smaller wing than the right wing, and has less lift.

SO, dihedral and swept wings is what makes these planes so magical as a 3 channel, and why we love them so much.

Oh, and as far as stability goes - with dihedral, when the plane banks, the lower wing is now flat, making lots of lift, and the higher wing is now angled up with less lift. So dihedral makes it a "self righting" sort of thing.

The Jenny (Eflite) has had criticism from many (including me) for not wanting to turn well. If it does not have dihedral, it will just skid, and about 100 feet later will finally turn. And when it does, it will not likely "un-bank" itself. A Jenny is a GREAT plane if set up with unscale dihedral, OR with the addition of ailerons to bank the wings.
Dec 12, 2011, 11:42 AM
Registered User
7car7's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
There is another biplane I've seen... can't remember the name... but it had a lot of dihedral in the lower wings and absolutely none on the top wing.
Oh, two that come to mind are the Albatros DV-DVa, and the Sopwith Camel.
Dec 12, 2011, 12:25 PM
I even seen a house fly!
LedKitty's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7car7 View Post
Dihedral does make it more stable, but in our case, (3 channel Moth), it makes the plane BANK when using only rudder. That's why these things turn so well with just rudder.

If you had no dihedral, the plane would just skid sideways, and eventually turn. With the dihedral, when you present the side of the plane (or wingtip) to the direction of the air flow, the dihedral causes the on-coming air to go UNDER the wing on the now more forward tip. At the same time, the opposite wing now sees pressure on TOP of the wing. In a left rudder input, the right wing now goes up, the left wing now gets pushed down.

Now here's the really cool part - join that stuff with the fact that we have swept wings. Now, the wing that's going up (the right wing) is now presenting it's full length to the on-coming air flow. The Left wing, because of sweep, is now being seen as a smaller wing than the right wing, and has less lift.

SO, dihedral and swept wings is what makes these planes so magical as a 3 channel, and why we love them so much.

Oh, and as far as stability goes - with dihedral, when the plane banks, the lower wing is now flat, making lots of lift, and the higher wing is now angled up with less lift. So dihedral makes it a "self righting" sort of thing.

The Jenny (Eflite) has had criticism from many (including me) for not wanting to turn well. If it does not have dihedral, it will just skid, and about 100 feet later will finally turn. And when it does, it will not likely "un-bank" itself. A Jenny is a GREAT plane if set up with unscale dihedral, OR with the addition of ailerons to bank the wings.
You beat me to the punch with that explanation 7car7! Nicely put

K.
Dec 12, 2011, 02:26 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
You've pretty well hit the nail on the head. But, flying any plane with rudder only is going to make it bank. Bernoulli's law. When you're flying a real airplane one of the first things you are told is "Keep the nose up in a turn".
To demonstrate, the instructor flies straight and level, then holds left or right rudder. As you said below...it takes a moment, but the plane will dip one wing... and if you aren't careful.. you'll find yourself in a spin. Most planes "tip stall" the wing that is angled down. But, if you practice... you can throw the Moth on it's side, let off the rudder and pull back on the stick. The up elevator turns the plane when it's on it's side like a pylon racer. I've got a Jenny and the first thing I did was panic when I gave it rudder and it just skidded sidways. That plane needs ailerons. But, I put dihedral in the wings and it turns fine now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 7car7 View Post
Dihedral does make it more stable, but in our case, (3 channel Moth), it makes the plane BANK when using only rudder. That's why these things turn so well with just rudder.

If you had no dihedral, the plane would just skid sideways, and eventually turn. With the dihedral, when you present the side of the plane (or wingtip) to the direction of the air flow, the dihedral causes the on-coming air to go UNDER the wing on the now more forward tip. At the same time, the opposite wing now sees pressure on TOP of the wing. In a left rudder input, the right wing now goes up, the left wing now gets pushed down.

Now here's the really cool part - join that stuff with the fact that we have swept wings. Now, the wing that's going up (the right wing) is now presenting it's full length to the on-coming air flow. The Left wing, because of sweep, is now being seen as a smaller wing than the right wing, and has less lift.

SO, dihedral and swept wings is what makes these planes so magical as a 3 channel, and why we love them so much.

Oh, and as far as stability goes - with dihedral, when the plane banks, the lower wing is now flat, making lots of lift, and the higher wing is now angled up with less lift. So dihedral makes it a "self righting" sort of thing.

The Jenny (Eflite) has had criticism from many (including me) for not wanting to turn well. If it does not have dihedral, it will just skid, and about 100 feet later will finally turn. And when it does, it will not likely "un-bank" itself. A Jenny is a GREAT plane if set up with unscale dihedral, OR with the addition of ailerons to bank the wings.
Jan 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
Registered User
spencer6891's Avatar

When dogs fly


Here's a video of my TM 400's first amphibious adventure, taken last Sunday evening in perfect 65 degree North Carolina weather.

http://youtu.be/rVBbbCrIovk?hd=1
Jan 12, 2012, 06:19 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer6891 View Post
Here's a video of my TM 400's first amphibious adventure, taken last Sunday evening in perfect 65 degree North Carolina weather.

http://youtu.be/rVBbbCrIovk?hd=1
Congratulations on your first amphibious endeavor with the TM400 - nice landing!

Aeronca
Jan 12, 2012, 09:18 AM
Registered User
Pat Daily's Avatar
Outstanding video--where are you in NC? Pretty TM! We used to fly off a lake outside Goldsboro.
Jan 12, 2012, 04:24 PM
Forever WTTM Pilot #7
Buzz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by spencer6891 View Post
Here's a video of my TM 400's first amphibious adventure, taken last Sunday evening in perfect 65 degree North Carolina weather.

http://youtu.be/rVBbbCrIovk?hd=1
Very well done! I have to get a set of floats ... I'm just finishing up a partially built TM... and this time I'm serious, Pat! This one has a small brushless in it so ............. Where do I find floats? I think Pat builds his own... Is there any place you guys know of that sells a set of floats that would work on the TM? (I may put wheel wells in the bottom so I can still land on a runway)

Buzz


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