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Oct 31, 2005, 11:16 AM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
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Miss Lizzy build


Hello all,

My friend Steve and me just started the build of Miss Lizzy. The ML is a Semi-scale sports plane, some data:
Wingspan:51" (1372mm)
Length:37" (940mm)
Wing area: 3.4 sq ft (0.3 sq m)
The plans are designed by Peter Miller and distributed by the magazine RCM&E. Normally the plane is powered by a .32 cu. in. 2 strokes motor, but we are going to make it electric.
The goal of this thread is to get some input regarding some problems we encounter during the build, my second goal is to show you some nice pictures of the build (just got a digital camera )

The first attached pictures is a bad one, I will post more pictures of the start of the build once I get home

Regards
Daan
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Oct 31, 2005, 11:33 AM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
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The first problem might be one of the biggest and most important for us... which motor to put in there. It has to replace a .32 cu inche 2 strokes gas motor.

We where thinking of a Cyclon 30 or a Twister 25, I put some specs together so maybe somebody can help us decide

Motor-----------Cyclon 30-----Twister 25
mass (gr)------150------------140
Current (A)-----25-------------30
Max Current----35-------------40
eff (%)---------88-------------85
Lipo cells (#)---2-4 ------------2-3
NiMh cells(#)---8-14-----------8-10
R totale (ohm)-0.042----------0.026
Io (A)----------1.2-------------2.5
KV motor------960------------1500
(RPM/min/V)
Nominal Power-325-----------330
(Watt)

http://www.cyclonbrushless.com/cyclon-intro.html

I hope somebody can give some input.

Thanks
Daan
Last edited by Uitgeslapen; Oct 31, 2005 at 01:58 PM.
Oct 31, 2005, 12:47 PM
Electric Mad
Hi Daan,
I have also just started building Miss Lizzie.
I am thinking of putting in a tornado 3630/1000.
I have these motors in a the Nigel Hawes Tucano and Tornado.

I will be interested to see how you get on.

Graham
Last edited by GrahamR; Oct 31, 2005 at 01:15 PM.
Oct 31, 2005, 01:12 PM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
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Hey Graham,

Do you have specs for this motor? and what is the weight of the other planes you have put the motor in. I think the Miss Lizzy will be around 2.5kg. I will post more pictures after 22 o'clock (I am working in the late shift today).

Also have two complete days to build tomorrow and the day after, so we will make (hopefully) a lot of process during the next days..

Can you post some pictures of your build.

regards Daan
Oct 31, 2005, 01:31 PM
Electric Mad
Tornado 3630-1000 High Performance Brushless Motor
Hi Daan

600 - 700 Size Replacement.
Details
Shaft-Diameter = 5 mm
Diameter = 36 mm , Length = 55 mm
Weight = 230 g , KV = 1000
Required ESC Rating = 40 Amp
Comes complete with fitted 3.5mm gold connectors
Will run on 7 - 12 Volts
Will Spin 10x5in to 12x8in props
The Tucano weighs 1048g
the Tornado (plane) weighs 1258g , both without flight packs.
Flight pack used 10 cell nicads (2100ma)

Regards
Graham
Oct 31, 2005, 01:42 PM
Electric Mad
You could also try this motor

HYPERION HP-Z3025 High Torque Brushless Outrunner Motor. brc146

The NEW Z-Series Hyperion Motors are some of the best-built motors ever seen. From front to back, only the highest quality materials and components are used. The arrangement of twelve stator poles and fourteen magnet poles is primarily responsible for the high torque the Z Series generates on direct drive. In addition The stators are hand-wound in an optimal pattern, so we get less resistance for a given number of turns. The stator plates are produced via a CNC process that insures uniformity, and made of a new silicon steel with superior permeability at high induction. The stator plates are finished with a lifetime anti-oxidant coating, to eliminate losses which can occur due to magnetic shorting from corrosion.

Motor Specs:
* HP-Z3025-08
* Stator Diam. mm 30
* Stator Length mm 25
*Weight 186g
* Outside Diameter mm 37
* Length mm 50
* Output Shaft Diameter 5mm
* Mount Screw Diameter 3mm
* Max eff. Current A 32-42
* Peak current 65A 10sec
* LiPo cells 2~4
* NiMH & NiCd cells 6~12
* Winding 8T
* Resistance Ohm 0.020
* Io A 3.2
* KV rpm/V 985
* Recommended ESC HP-TITAN-50P or HP-TITAN-80P


Stunning performance in .40 IC to Electric conversions, over 500W can be found with this motor!

This is a hot motor, maybe to much for Miss Lizzie.

Graham
Oct 31, 2005, 01:59 PM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
Thread OP
Hey Graham,

I will surtanly take those engines into the comparison. Do you have any expirience with the ones I am talking about.

Regards Daan
Oct 31, 2005, 05:45 PM
Electric Mad
Hi Daan,
I am sorry but I don't have any experience with the cyclon or twister motors. I have only used the ones I told you about.
I was hoping to have built most of the fuz last week, but I had some problems. The wood for the fuz sides were not the same density and so the fuz ended up banana shaped.
This I have now corrected.
The main modification I have made is to make the top up to f3 removable, and to cut into the formers to install a battery tray. I will post some pictures soon.

Regards
Graham
Oct 31, 2005, 05:49 PM
Electric Mad
Daan,
Just a thought here is link to a uk forum where someone else has built Miss Lizzie.

http://www.rcmodelflyers.co.uk/4um/i...1550.msg223231

Graham
Oct 31, 2005, 07:31 PM
Naturally altered
This is a very good looking plane. I am (was) interested in builing a GeeBee Racer D until I saw this one, looks really sharp and speedy. I was searching all over the net until this last post, which indicated it is from a recent magazine not selling in my area Is there any electronic version of the plan available?

The Cyclon 30 is very similar in specifications to the MPJET 28/20-7, which I am using in a 48 inches WS SuperSportster at an AUW of 44 ounces (1250 grams) with sparkling results on a 3400 mah 3s2p lipo. However, I rejected this motor for the "electrification" of a 51 in Cap 232 with a projected weight of nearly 5 pounds. As a result, I was more than puzzled with the targeted weight of 2.5 kg for the Miss Lizzy.

I believe the Miss Lizzy airframe, covered can be achieved well under 32 ounces (900 grams), even if built pretty strong. My 48" SS airframe weighs 22.5 ounces (with everything included except for radio system, motor and battery).

With that kind of numbers in mind, the Cyclon 30, MPJet 28/20-7, or AXI 2820 (or possibly 2826 for more umphh) would all be good motors for it. The AXI 2826 is noticeably lighter than the MPjet yet much stronger. With the 2826-10, 4200 mah 3s2p Lipo, the Miss Lizzy would be an absolutely outstanding performer at a projected AUW of 1.5 kg. An AXI 2820-08, 3400 3s2p, 1.4 kg Miss Lizzy would be nothing to nit pick about either

Edit : Got the motor, got the batteries, got the servos, need the plans
Last edited by Cubber; Oct 31, 2005 at 07:43 PM.
Nov 01, 2005, 03:31 PM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
Thread OP
Sorry for the delay, after a long day of work I did not have the fut to switch on my pc. But here then finally are the pictures of the first day of work
*The ribs we make using a template as shown
*The formers are very basic, we used 4mm^2 wire as landinggear
*Last but not least we made a motor support that would fit almost any engine
Nov 01, 2005, 03:40 PM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
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Graham,

A problem we encountered is that the profile of the wing completely does not match the profile in the fuselage. Have you any idea if this is suposed to be like this or if it is a mistake?

I think you can buy the magazine online and have it send to where you want. Just write the magazine for a copy, they should be glad to help you.
Daan
Last edited by Uitgeslapen; Nov 02, 2005 at 02:26 AM.
Nov 01, 2005, 03:50 PM
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Day two:

Today we have put the biggest part of the fuselage together and have started on half of a wing.
Here you can see we are building two of everything...I will post some more comments tomorrow on the Miss Lizzy, But for now I have to spend some time with my other Miss..

Good night
Daan
Nov 01, 2005, 05:25 PM
Electric Mad
Daan,
Wow, I am impressed. You have made good progress.
What batteries are you going to use and how are you going to fit them?
I have'nt looked at the rib profile yet. I will do that tomorrow.
All I have managed to do tonight is to sheet the top rear decking and to cyno my ring to my finger.
Ouch

Graham
Last edited by GrahamR; Nov 01, 2005 at 05:34 PM.
Nov 02, 2005, 02:33 AM
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Uitgeslapen's Avatar
Thread OP
Hello Graham,

I also have developed the nice skill of gluing my fingers at the stranged angels, but your ring to your finger, that must hurt. Look at it from the good side, if it is your mariage ring your wife will be happy with the comitement

For the batteries, that depends upon the total weight we allready will have and the motor ofcourse. Normally we will use NiMh (10-12 cells), the capacity depends on how "heavy" we build it. We are also looking to buy some lipo's, but we don't want to put a fortune on batteries in there. So if anybody has a cheap lipo dealer, please let me know...

Daan


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