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Aug 04, 2005, 08:29 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar

massive wire versus multistranded wire

David Theunissen did some calculations:

Colin Dedman's analysis:

Peter Rother:

Vriendelijke groeten Ron van Sommeren
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Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Aug 04, 2005 at 08:35 AM.
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Aug 04, 2005, 10:24 AM
jrb's Avatar
Its been used in higher performance RC Car motors for quite a while:
Aug 04, 2005, 10:29 AM
Registered User
WOW, someone has way way too much time on their hands. Very well done though.
Aug 04, 2005, 11:36 AM
Pro Bro #495
fwilly's Avatar
very cool stuff!!
Aug 04, 2005, 12:07 PM
Registered User
Originally Posted by latrans
WOW, someone has way way too much time on their hands.
My part started as I prepare to wind the world's best electric motor (the CROCODILE project, of course) and kept getting more complex. Still a little more work needed I fear to consider the options. I welcome suggestions.
Aug 04, 2005, 01:22 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Crocodile project, including turned parts, shafts, magnets, stator:
Aug 04, 2005, 01:24 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Holger Lambertus' results, using massive wire and litze wire, nice pictures too
Aug 04, 2005, 04:00 PM
Registered User
I think we have to be a member to see the photos. Holger's results also show that 'thick is beautiful'!

I must be very sad because I spent another evening on this! I have added a section looking at how the wire 'bows' away from the side of the stator. This appears to be one of the major constraints to density. I really want thinner wire to be better than thick but just can't do it yet!!!
Aug 04, 2005, 04:28 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Aug 04, 2005 at 04:45 PM.
Aug 04, 2005, 10:51 PM
Pro Bro #495
fwilly's Avatar
What about winding with a single strand of thin wire and connecting the teeth in paralell. I saw pics of a Shogun motor wound this way. Unless my line of thinking is off, it would be the same resistance as a triple strand. It would be easier to wind a single strand neatly, but it would be a lot of turns.
Aug 05, 2005, 03:54 PM
Registered User
I'd like to see that Shogun design. Ron, I managed to register and have now seen the rcline photos; nice and neat but some empty space!

When I draw a GB 22.7 stator in CAD I can fit 70 strands of 0.45mm between two teeth. The most dense motor I have ever made has been 48 strands of 0.45mm (24 turns x2 = 3.82mm2) which I thought was quite good. By improving my technique I can get up to 50 strands but this is still way short of 70. So a little test revealed that I could fit 64 separate strands if I did not do any winding (=5.09mm2). The wire is slightly curved so I know I won't ever get to 70.

I am still looking for a techniques that will achieve greater winding density. The big issue for me has become the fact that the windings are 'oval' and waste space. So I have tried flattening the wire against the inside of the tooth with a wooden skewer/plastic wedge after each layer. This has helped a great deal and I have been able to fit 28T of 0.45mm (=56 strands) into two successive teeth so a complete motor should be feasible. This is 4.46mm2, over 16% better than what I could achieve before starting this research.

The second photo below shows 28x0.45mm on the left and 40x0.375mm (4.42mm2) on the right. The latter should make a nice 20T motor if I wind it with two successive strands although rotor clearance may be a problem. I will post more details of the technique in the first link in this thread.
Aug 05, 2005, 05:54 PM
Lance Armstrong- 7 times!
flybike's Avatar
Absolutely amazing work.
Aug 05, 2005, 05:58 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
One way to achive better density that may work is to wind always in one direction, and then come back up to the beginning with a diagonal wire outside the inter-stator gaps (where space is less an issue). Then the next layer can lie in the gaps in the first layer, and follow it down...
Aug 05, 2005, 08:59 PM
Lance Armstrong- 7 times!
flybike's Avatar
In the first link you'll see a good picture of what Vintage is saying.

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