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Thread OP
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Discussion
Help, identify this 50" Old Timer. Texaco Class?
I have been restoring and upgrading this plane, and would really like to know what it is.
Maybe someone knows? It was a kit build with 50" span and 6.5" cord at the fuse. Wing area calculates about 272 SQ inches and 1.9 SQ feet. I believe it was a "Speed 400" Texaco class, as it had a speed 400 6V motor in it. Motor cowl seems factory made of plastic. Most likely the windshield too. Thanks for looking, Dave |
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Looks like a Lanzo Airborne, maybe. SAM flies a speed 400 LER ( limited engine run) class.
Spirit of Yesteryear offered a kit at some point. |
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I think it is a SOY Airborn (no-e)
Their plan dropped the dihedral |
Latest blog entry: Steak and Old Timers
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BTW, did it have a genuine Graupner 6v speed 400, or another brand?
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Thread OP
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Lanzo Airbourne by Bob Hoffman
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the help. As received it needed TLC, and a weight reduction diet. I removed the real Graupner 400 6V motor and 6*3 prop from the cool aluminum "Speed 400" mount. Also the huge Futaba AM Rx, brushed ESC, and a bunch of not needed wiring. Then made a few minor tweaks to the aluminum mount and fitted a E-flite Park 370 motor in the nose with the shaft reversed. Next added a CC Phoenix 10 ESC. The fit for the ESC was very tight, but it did work. Used 2 tabs of silicon RTV to secure it to the mount. Also made a 0.4" hard balsa spacer to move the motor to the very front of the cowl. Weight without battery pack is now at 11.9 ounces. Battery pack fits right at the CG, so I can use any size pack that suits the flying conditions. Most likely will use one of my 3S 800 mA lipo packs and an 8*4 prop. Want to the prop the motor for about 60 watts. Attached are a few pictures for your amusement The second pictures shows the cool removable landing gear. Look closely, and you can see the shape that is hidden behind the firewall. Actually, it is a dual firewall spaced for a snug fit for the landing gear wire. When you squeeze the legs of the landing gear together, it pulls out Fly'm if you Got'm, Dave |
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Last edited by Daveairway; Oct 15, 2021 at 01:45 PM.
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That aluminum mount is a jewel, custom made, machined by a gent w/last name Kramer, Loren Kramer if I recall correctly. Quite a prize.
And FYI, the Graupner 6v Speed 400 motors are still desirable, esp. for SAM flyers competing in the Speed 400 event. Enjoy your model. |
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Quote:
I really fell in love with the aluminum mount. Great design and it weighs nothing! To fit the out runner motor, I just spread the 4 post about 1/16" at the front. Regarding speed 400 motors. The first time I tried a Speed 400 was with a Gunther 125*110 prop (Zagi Prop). I was "blown away". Built a Zagi flying wing, then a pylon racer, then a SR batteries X-250 with gearbox and 10 cells. Still have them all. I also discovered the speed 280 motors. Still have around 6 of the gear boxes for them. And a nice selection of ESC's. If you know anyone that want some of these motors and gear boxes, let me know. Dave |
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Motor Test
Well I finally did a motor test with my watt meter today and a few props.
I figured the motor was a Park 370 1060 KV. But it turns out to be a Park 370 1360 KV motor. I was looking for around 50 to 60 watts so narrowed it down to these 2 props. The GWS 8*4 HD prop is fine for 2 cells. 46 watts and 8.4K RPM. The 5*3 three bladed prop is fine with 3 cells. 70 watts and 12.5K RPM. The 3 blade reminds me of the Draco Turbine powered STOL. It's a great read and here is the link:
Dave |
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Last edited by Daveairway; Oct 15, 2021 at 01:47 PM.
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Say what?Quote:
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Thread OP
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Laramie,
I am not a fan of lipo batteries. To hard to deal with and cause way to many fires. For my old timers, I really like the A123 cells. Charge them up, and they are still ready to go months later. Most old timers need the weight up front anyway, so lipo's are not needed to really enjoy flying them. I have also been exploring the new generation of Lithium Ion cells. They have come a long way and really are very promising. These are the cells used in lap tops and electric vehicles. Electric bikes are amazing with these. Regarding motors and gear boxes: I have several boxes of geared motors and ESC's. Most of the vintage are 180, 280, 400 and "05" can motors sizes. I also have AstroFlight geared motors. These are cobalt motors. 035, 05, 15, and 25's. Plenty of esc's for them too. Almost forgot, and a few belt drives! Whisper quiet Dave PM sent. |
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Last edited by Daveairway; Oct 24, 2021 at 03:40 PM.
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[QUOTE=Lmoreau13;48044499....... Lipo batteries as theyre too much trouble to store ( they require constant cycling,or when you go to use them you find them puffed!) The old stuff is great (for me ) Send me a PM if you still have anything left. Laramie.[/QUOTE]
Not so. Constant cycling will just use up the cycle life of the battery and encourage "puffing". Use a proper charger which has a facility to balance charge the battery to the storage level and store them like that, balance charging up to full only when you want to fly and re-charging to storage level afterwards. I have lipos which are 10-15 years old and are still perfectly good, treat them properly and they will give excellent service. If you store them fully charged, they won't. |
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So bacicly, I rest my case! lts something you have to stay on top of. & If you tend not to fly all that often (like me) , well this type of battery just isnt for us! I just dont fly all that often, so this type of battery isnt practical for me! Theres just to much disciplen involved. Damn! how l miss Ni-cads & NiHi s And such. & not always having to be mindful of them! Well thats just me, as l know myself to be in the small minority (in so far as Lipos go), L know that that they are more eficiant & all, those of you who chose them, power to you! Also maybe if l had a higher end charger, That doesnt totally refuse to recieve any Lipos at all (my charger is a Hobby King Clone) l might change my mind, but lm on a low budget! Its only reasently that lve been able to get into R/C, thanks to the Chinees offerings. When l was younger, R/C was just a pipe dream! Now its almost afordable! Well, what can l say? To Lipos l just say no! Laramie.
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I honestly cannot follow the logic in this argument. Nicads and NiMH require just as much attention and discipline if they are to give top performance and long life, just of a different type. If you store them fully charged they discharge over time so have to be recharged before flying. If you only partially discharge them when flying then re-charge repeatedly they build up a "memory" and ultimately fail to give full capacity. ALL batteries, whatever the chemistry, require care, attention and, yes, a certain amount of discipline to get the best results and long life from them. My lipos sit quite happily at storage charge between flying sessions, sometimes, depending upon the weather, these can be a month or six weeks apart but all I need to do is to be aware that I want to fly an hour or two in advance to hook up four lipos at a time to my four output charger and bring them up to full charge, and a similar amount of time after the session to re-charge the ones used (and discharge any not used) to storage level, hardly demanding of much organisation.
I agree that Nicad an NiMH batteries were physically more rugged and forgiving of mis-handling, but these advantages are vastly outweighed by the superior power/weight ratio and performance of GOOD lipos - as I said, treat 'em right and they will repay you! And I have to say I do not miss the hours spent end-to-end cell soldering up, sleeving and wiring to produce the various Nicad and NiMH battery packs I used to use, and I certainly don't miss the extra weight my models used to have to carry to achieve the same power output and run time . Still, it's your dollar, if you cannot feel comfortable with lipos, use whatever you prefer as long as you enjoy your modelling. |
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Laramie, I'm afraid that Sundancer is right. Nicads and NiMH packs are just as easily damaged through being ignored for long times as anything else. I've had to dispose of a lot of my older packs from the late 90's and early 2000's over the past five years when a number of cycles only restored them to half to at best 2/3's of their rated capacity.
They tend to self discharge over time a LOT faster than lithium chemistry options. And once they get too low they either are tough to get even part way back up or simply don't come back up at all. I puffed a couple of packs before I learned about the storage charge level option a few years ago. Plus one of three packs which I totally ignored for about 10 years did become very low for output even off a fresh charge. Likely another victim of not knowing at the time about storage charging. But since then I've been using the chargers to come up to or go down to a storage charge the packs have been fine to ignore for months at a time then charge up to full the night before and go flying. And if by some chance the weather turns and I don't go flying then it's not a big deal to line up the packs and one after the other put then onto the charger and run them back down to the storage charge level. After all the cell count and capacity are already in the chargers from having charged them up the night before. I just go on about my daily chores and swap packs when I remember. To be fair though the idea of using the A123 or 18650's or similar metal cased cells isn't a bad option either. A few more grams but a lot more durability. And a LOT more high current capacity than we can get in NiMH these days. The high current NiMH cells are either just not available or at least not all that easily found these days. |
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