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Build Log
Proctor VK N17 Slow Build
I have been away from the hobby for about 10 years but getting back into it, love all the new electric power setups and that is what all be doing on the N17, converting it to electric. I started work on the Nieuport last October and have meant to post my progress but just have not had the time until today. Love the WW1 birds and the Proctor kit is very nice, its been a real pleasure to work on.
My goal is to build it as scale as possible with a detailed cockpit, fuselage wire bracing, spinning LeRhone engine etc. I have followed along on several other builds which have been really helpful and I know weight is always an issue and keeping everything upfront as possible to achieve the proper balance point without adding weight. Since I'm already into the build all just post a few pics of my progress so far for those who would like follow along or help out with any suggestions along the way, always looking for better ideas! I built the stock balsa tail feathers and a set out of aluminum tubbing tail feathers just to see the weight difference as I really want to use the tubbing for a more scale construction method, but again that old weight issue! I'm working on the lower wings at this time and will post a few pictures of my progress. I would like to know for those that have built the kit, how did you setup your lower wing dihedral? Did you build the landing gear first and then level the aircraft and set stabilizer and lower wing incidence and dihedral from that reference point? This is the approach I thinking on going with but if someone has a better method would love to hear it. Thanks and I post more latter on the lower wing. Grant |
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A friend and I built this kit back when VK, Futaba radios, Schnerle ported engines, and me were all relatively "new". That would be 1971 or so. We also tried aluminum tube instead of laminated tail outlines, but, IIRC we ended up using latter.
As I recall, we built the upper wing "flat" & one piece, mounted on the fuselage cabane struts, inverted the whole assembly. Then added kit interplane V struts and let them determine the lower wing dihedral. Was that really 50 years ago??!! We had a devil of a time trying to get the thing to taxi and found it near impossible to take off, once in position. It simply would not stay straight enough to take off! I happened to mention the lack of success to my Dad, who was a member of the OX-5 Club, from before WWII. He said tail skid equipped ;aircraft are near impossible to taxi on pavement. It is not wise to do so, as its courting disaster, with SERIOUS ground-looping. Also he said wing tip walkers didn't disappear from regular ground handling until wide spread acceptance of the tail wheel.. He further suggested we might try what worked prior to "modern" handing, when it came to take off. In the old days, going back to WWI, it was customary to chock an aircraft's wheels, run up the power and then go chocks away to take off. When we tried just holding th model back, as engine was run up to full and found take -off was now relatively easy. and quite successful. But one had to be ready with quick rudder input, to counter torque. I learned then, there are many things directly applicable from full scale to scale model flight. Again, IIRC, we started with a OS .40, but soon went to a .60. My buddy, Norman Walsh, was funding the project, so he wanted more HP. I was the builder . As a FFer from way back (1961 age 11)., I always felt that this Nieuport's design weight could be better managed by proper wood selection. 4-6 lb ribs and fuse. X-members etc. and hard balsa for the longerons, instead of spruce. Another way to cut weight would be to taper the longerons in a scale like manner, getting thinner/ smaller towards the tail. Another place to save weight might be a thin shell on the turtle deck, molded in paper and epoxy resin or even alephatic glue. AFAIKT (and please correct me if I'm wrong!!) the VK design is based upon scale drawings by Bergen Hardesty. I saved them from that time and posted their tattered remains, a few years back, on this forum: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...98&postcount=7 I also have long wanted to build another at 1/6 scale (Nieuport 11, actually), but use scale airfoils and incidences. charlie neely |
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Last edited by packardpursuit; Aug 26, 2021 at 05:29 PM.
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Charlie,
Sounds like you guys had a lot of fun trying to get that N17 airborne! I hope mine is not so trouble some :-) I have a set of the Bergen Hardesty drawings that I downloaded from this site, so my guess is, they were the one you posted. Not sure if VK used them for their model design but they are defiantly very helpful detailed drawings. Grant |
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Quote:
Lyle |
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Ok, so far I have my lower wings 85% sanded and ready to figure out the dihedral block installation. Also started work on the landing gear tonight, making some headway.
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Been working on making a more scale landing gear the past few days. The real N17 had Aluminum landing gear with a bracket at the bottom which harness the thing together. Finding good quality pictures for reference has been a challenge.
Finally came up with a method that should look pretty convincing. I dont own milling tools so this will be a hand bending and filing process. Here is what I have so far. If anyone has a great picture of the landing gear bracket or a good drawing, would appreciate a picture of it if you don't mind sharing! Thanks Grant |
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Loving the build! Your pics reminded me of why I'm drawn to earlier Model 11. No false ribs! Don't know what it is that puts me off, but there you go!!??
Further, it's my understanding Models 11 and 17 share dimensionally identical basic box fuselage structures , landing gears, and tail feathers. Wing dimensions, outlines, and airfoils will be taken from an original 1916 Macci drawings. It was recently demonstrated to me the excellent power and TINY nature of modern electric motors. An old dream was rekindled. That of possible incorporation of rotating scale cylinders, in an open front Nieuport 11 scale cowl! |
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Garros
Sorry to burst your bubble on the landing gear but just using straight K&S tubing won't cut it. They use a very soft alloy and very thin walls. Even a very good alloy of aluminum would be too weak. Unless you make the gear out of music wire, then cover it with the streamlined tubing. The full size used steel tubing and our landing and taxiing loads are a lot higher. |
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Stephen,
Your correct, the tubing is thin walled forsure. The original landing gear wire and wood will slide inside of the tubing which will take the load when landing, the tubing will just hide the wood and make the gear look more realistic. The landing gear axle plate at the bottom in the pictures is the original as well, just bent into the proper shape. All post more pictures once I get some time to work on it, oh so little time these days. |
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