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Jun 11, 2021, 09:19 AM
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Blade 230 S V2 Throttle Curve Adjust for Soft Landings


Hello All:


I’m a new helicopter pilot, and I’m teaching myself to fly. Been flying R/C airplanes for 45 years, and I’ve learned how to fly a Blade Co-Axial Heli (Blade MCX2). Just purchased a Blade 230 S v2, and I’m using a Spektrum DX6 Gen 3 radio. Downloaded the Blade 230 S v2 system setups on my TX from the Horizon website.

I did the trim flight (as recommended in the manual), and the helicopter now hovers without excessive drifting. So, I think that the trimming phase is successfully completed.

However, when throttling down for a landing, the helicopter abruptly loses lift and slams into the ground, instead of gently touching down. The result is a broken landing skid. Question: Is there a way to adjust the throttle and/or pitch curve(s) to soften the landing so that I can make a soft touchdown and stop breaking landing skids?

Here are the Throttle and Pitch curve values for the Blade 230 S v2:

Throttle Curve

Normal: 0% 25% 50% 75% 100%
Stunt 1: 85% 85% 85% 85% 85%
Stunt 2: 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%

Pitch Curve

Normal: 30% 40% 50% 75% 100%
Stunt 1: 0% 25% 50% 75% 100%
Stunt 2: 0% 25% 50% 75% 100%
Hold: 25% 37% 50% 75% 100%

Note: At this point I am only using the Normal values for flying my heli.

BTW, I know that airplanes take off and land into the wind. Is this the same with helicopters? Should I make sure that I’m landing upwind (as with an airplane) to prevent the heli from slamming into the ground?
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Jun 11, 2021, 03:02 PM
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Helique's Avatar
Using those throttle and pitch curves in your “normal” mode are indeed going to result in the Heli loosing lift quite quickly.
In your case, since you won’t be flying inverted (for now) I would program your normal mode to be something like:
Throttle: 75-75-75-75-75
Pitch: 30-45-60-75-100
This is assuming you have your throttle assigned to a “hold” switch to shut the motor.
On a collective pitch RC helicopter, the left stick on the transmitter (assuming it is a mode 2 transmitter) should be referred to as the “Collective” not “Throttle.” The collective stick should control pitch (up/down) and rudder (side to side). Throttle control should be assigned to a two position switch (on/off) usually referred to as “Throttle Hold” or “Throttle Cut.” (The difference in terminology only applies to Helis with fuel engines, where “Hold” sets the engine to idle, and “Cut” stops the engine running.) Head speed, controlled by throttle curves, should be assigned to a separate (usually 3-way) switch.
Using the collective stick to control throttle is a bad habit you will eventually want to break. You will eventually want to use a pitch curve that takes advantage of the full pitch range (full positive/negative). By controlling the throttle with the collective stick, in a panic situation, slamming the left stick down to cut the throttle, you are also inputting negative pitch. Depending on the orientation of the Heli, this could be quite disastrous or even dangerous. By contrast, with the throttle assigned to a switch, as opposed to the collective stick, you can cut the throttle and still have full control of the collective.
Jun 12, 2021, 06:44 PM
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Thread OP

Blade 230 S v2 throttle Curve Adjust for Soft Landings


Helique,

Thanks for your input. I do have “hold” set up on my transmitter. It is assigned to Switch H by default, using the TX setup parameters that I downloaded to my DX6 from Spektrum’s website for the Blade 230 Sv2. Also, my TX is configured as Mode 2. And I’m used to using the left stick for throttle (collective?) from flying my Blade MCX2, and also from many years of flying R/C planes. So, I’m not sure if I follow your statement: “Using the collective stick to control throttle is a bad habit you will eventually want to break.”

I’m simply trying to figure out how to set up my TX to prevent my heli from suddenly dropping down to the ground when I pull the throttle down to idle. It’s similar to coming in for a landing when flying an R/C airplane: you slowly reduce power as you approach the ground (down to idle), so that you can make a smooth touchdown when landing. BTW, I also fly drones, and I can make smooth and gentle landings by modulating the throttle (left stick) with no problem. But not so with my Blade 230 S v2.

For some reason, the setup numbers from Blade don’t seem to allow me to make a gentle landing. I will try your suggestions for the throttle and Pitch curves to see what effect that will have. This raises the question: Why does Blade provide these numbers if they don’t actually work very well for beginners like myself? The learning curve for flying heli’s is waaaaaay steeper than it is for flying airplanes or drones.

Anyway, thanks for your advice!
Jun 13, 2021, 12:33 PM
Registered User
Helique's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabxx507

I’m simply trying to figure out how to set up my TX to prevent my heli from suddenly dropping down to the ground when I pull the throttle down to idle. It’s similar to coming in for a landing when flying an R/C airplane: you slowly reduce power as you approach the ground (down to idle), so that you can make a smooth touchdown when landing. BTW, I also fly drones, and I can make smooth and gentle landings by modulating the throttle (left stick) with no problem. But not so with my Blade 230 S v2.
Your MCX2 and your drones are fixed pitched machines. They control lift by accelerating or reducing the speed of the rotors, by use of the throttle. Your 230 S is a “collective pitch” machine. Just like full scale Helis, collective pitch RC Helis (when set up properly) control lift by changing the PITCH of the main rotor blades, not by changing the speed of the rotor blades, referred to as “head speed”.
Jun 13, 2021, 08:09 PM
Registered User
For your normal mode Hovering practice, get out your pitch gauge and set pitch curve -2 degrees at bottom collective and +8 to +10 at top. You'll have to play with the percentages a bit to get it. This is a much softer collective setting and will help your takeoff and landing practice. You can increase amounts back towards full range as you gain experience.
Jun 14, 2021, 05:16 PM
Registered User
Mr. John Salt recommends setting low collective at +3 for very soft landings.
He has an ebook that describes EVERYTHING!!
He's been flying helos for 30 years or so.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Jun 14, 2021, 08:28 PM
Registered User
Helique's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dino5
Mr. John Salt recommends setting low collective at +3 for very soft landings.
He has an ebook that describes EVERYTHING!!
He's been flying helos for 30 years or so.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
+1
Check out John Salt’s website: rc helicopter fun.com
Besides his informative ebooks, there is a lot of great info and a free video series that will help you get in the air safely.
Jun 15, 2021, 03:37 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabxx507
Helique,

So, I’m not sure if I follow your statement: “Using the collective stick to control throttle is a bad habit you will eventually want to break.”

I’m simply trying to figure out how to set up my TX to prevent my heli from suddenly dropping down to the ground when I pull the throttle down to idle. It’s similar to coming in for a landing when flying an R/C airplane: you slowly reduce power as you approach the ground (down to idle), so that you can make a smooth touchdown when landing. BTW, I also fly drones, and I can make smooth and gentle landings by modulating the throttle (left stick) with no problem. But not so with my Blade 230 S v2.

For some reason, the setup numbers from Blade don’t seem to allow me to make a gentle landing. I will try your suggestions for the throttle and Pitch curves to see what effect that will have. This raises the question: Why does Blade provide these numbers if they don’t actually work very well for beginners like myself? The learning curve for flying heli’s is waaaaaay steeper than it is for flying airplanes or drones.

Anyway, thanks for your advice!
Helique answered this best.

As per Spektrums set up guide:

Normal mode: is a mix of collective and throttle as you advance the throttle stick (or collective stick in heli terms). Its a safe mode for beginners to safely try the 230S. It's not a true / proper way to fly a heli, but similar to a drone (except at -100% throttle, where pitch is set to negative). Unlike the Blade Nano S2 or S3, the normal mode is a very safe positive pitch even at -100% throttle (very dumb), and dampened response on the throttle so you can't rise or drop too quickly. Utterly stupid idea and counterproductive to helping you progress in helis.

UI1 mode: is a mid ground mode of a set softer head speed, mid set stability and true collective so you control the heli by pitch control rather than throttle speed (as in a drone which has fixed pitch and throttle speed to control ascent and descent). To land in this mode have to be around mid stick on the collective stick (preferably slightly above mid), with throttle hold to stop the rotors. Where as with a plane, your idle on landing is slightly above -100% (at the bottom)

UI2 mode: is full head speed, no stability and collective pitch control. Full 3D set up or scary mode.

I like to fly in UI1, as it has a bit of stability and it flies like a true heli should. And yes, helis have a very steep learning curve, but fun when you finally get it right.
Jul 06, 2021, 09:14 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabxx507
Helique,

Thanks for your input. I do have “hold” set up on my transmitter. It is assigned to Switch H by default, using the TX setup parameters that I downloaded to my DX6 from Spektrum’s website for the Blade 230 Sv2. Also, my TX is configured as Mode 2. And I’m used to using the left stick for throttle (collective?) from flying my Blade MCX2, and also from many years of flying R/C planes. So, I’m not sure if I follow your statement: “Using the collective stick to control throttle is a bad habit you will eventually want to break.”

I’m simply trying to figure out how to set up my TX to prevent my heli from suddenly dropping down to the ground when I pull the throttle down to idle. It’s similar to coming in for a landing when flying an R/C airplane: you slowly reduce power as you approach the ground (down to idle), so that you can make a smooth touchdown when landing. BTW, I also fly drones, and I can make smooth and gentle landings by modulating the throttle (left stick) with no problem. But not so with my Blade 230 S v2.

For some reason, the setup numbers from Blade don’t seem to allow me to make a gentle landing. I will try your suggestions for the throttle and Pitch curves to see what effect that will have. This raises the question: Why does Blade provide these numbers if they don’t actually work very well for beginners like myself? The learning curve for flying heli’s is waaaaaay steeper than it is for flying airplanes or drones.

Anyway, thanks for your advice!
One thing to realize with setting pitch curve on CP helis, they have positive and negative pitch.

On the 230, 50% is flat pitch or 0% pitch. Anything below 50 is negative pitch and anything above 50 is positive pitch. So if you set your tx up as per manual, once you lower your collective, left stick, below middle position the heli is being "pushed" into the ground.

If you are new like me, a better pitch curve for you might be something like 50 60 70 80 90. Keep in mind that pitch curves and throttle curves go hand in hand. So if you leave those pitch curves as suggested and change the throttle curve the heli will behave differently. I would suggest a lower throttle curve for learning, even down to 0 50 50 50 50. Then set pitch curve to 55 65 75 85 95. Lower head speed will make the heli less responsive and easier to learn on. A little bit of positive pitch when collective is lowered with help "float" the heli down when landing instead of augering it into the ground. Now this is not ideal if progressing to 3D flight or even flying CP helis in general as one would want to get used to landing with collective at mid stick. Plus once you advance to fast forward flight you will need negative pitch or the heli might not decend. But when learning we all have the tendency to lower collective all the way down. Its a habit to over come. Try to progress and resist this tendency.

Play with the curves and do a few test flights till you get it set were you are comfortable. As your skills improve and confidence builds you can up these settings.

Hope this helps
Jul 06, 2021, 08:47 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCCHP
One thing to realize with setting pitch curve on CP helis, they have positive and negative pitch.

On the 230, 50% is flat pitch or 0% pitch. Anything below 50 is negative pitch and anything above 50 is positive pitch. So if you set your tx up as per manual, once you lower your collective, left stick, below middle position the heli is being "pushed" into the ground.
Everybody assumes 50% is zero degrees pitch. It's only zero if the rest of the linkage setup makes it that way. Use a pitch guage to make sure you have the Degrees of Pitch you want for the Percentage of Servo Travel. Two different things. This goes for cyclic set-up too.
Jul 06, 2021, 08:53 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by douflytoo
Everybody assumes 50% is zero degrees pitch. It's only zero if the rest of the linkage setup makes it that way. Use a pitch guage to make sure you have the Degrees of Pitch you want for the Percentage of Servo Travel. Two different things. This goes for cyclic set-up too.
Not really assumed. My comment assumed people set up their helis with a pitch gauge, to have 0 degrees at 50% throttle 🙂
Jul 07, 2021, 03:50 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by douflytoo
Everybody assumes 50% is zero degrees pitch. It's only zero if the rest of the linkage setup makes it that way. Use a pitch guage to make sure you have the Degrees of Pitch you want for the Percentage of Servo Travel. Two different things. This goes for cyclic set-up too.
Yes douflytoo you are correct and I missed that point. Assuming the mechanics are set up correctly, level swash, zero pitch, tracking, servo centered, etc. Then mid stick on the collective should be zero degrees. Short of a pitch guage, one can check this by simply folding the blades together and they should line up. If one is higher or lower than the other then adjustment is needed.


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