I've been thinking about picking up a PSSer (more specifically, a CSD F-80). No one flies composite PSSers at my typical flying spots (Temescal Canyon, Snake Hill, Kanan) even though some people fly foamie PSSers.

Now, I know that I can't fly a 60 ounce glass plane at these spots, but do I need tons of lift to fly a relatively light Aircobra or F80 (which I understand is based on the same planform) sheeted with balsa and weighing in the mid 20 ounce range? Will it do OK in wind that can fly a MiniBlade, or Mach Dart for example?

I don't want to pick up something that I can only have fun with a Fermin or Vincent or Parker, since I almost never get out to those places.

Thanks guys!

I thought an Aircobra could be built as low as 20 some ounces? 60 ounces might be alot for your hill but a light built CSD should fly in moderate lift. TFLG did a build thread a year ago or so that covered a light build.

Yeah, the Aircobra is the better performing light lift plane of the CSD line up. TFLG built one around 21 ounces, though I really think kept mid to low 30's would still fly in comparitively light lift. That said, light lift is SUCH a relative term. How heavy are the foam PSSers that fly your slopes? I thought there used to be some PSS flying done in the Temescal area?

BTW, the P-80 is supposed to have a planform similar to the Aircobra.

The Aircobra was the one I was looking at, but Robert isn't taking kit orders. George Voss has an f80 kit for sale which is what sparked my question. The CSD site says it's similar to the Aircobra and with the same planform, and with the long nose and short tail I figured it could be built really light as well, relatively speaking.

The foam PSSers that I have seen fly felt heavier to me, maybe in the 30 ounce range, but those are only flown on those post-storm, clearing wind days.

I know how relative "light" can be, so my new definition for "moderate lift" is lift that will fly a miniblade. Those are ubiquitous, so I figure they'll give almost everyone a point of reference.

It's hard to say. I have a 42oz. CSD Airacobra that is pretty fun in decent (i.e. screaming Mini Blade) lift, but around here it's often not at its best because our lift is pretty light. Would it be better at 30-35oz.? Probably.

At Cajon I flew one of Jack's planes, a 48" LEG Airacobra that was in the mid 30ozs. Granted a LEG plane is not the same as a CSD plane, but it sure flew awesome--just ripped around and was a total blast. Granted, the lift was pretty good, too (though my Airacobra just didn't have the liveliness--it was doing pumps fine, but it wouldn't have been happy doing the stuff I was doing with the LEG plane).

Droydx, one of the other local flyers, has an Airacobra that he built really light, somewhere in the 20s if I'm not mistaken, or maybe the low 30s. Seems to fly well, have not flown it myself but it gets around. It's one of the really old CSD kits, though, so it may not be a fair comparison either.

So there are some data points!

Steve

A Mini Blade and a light CSD type kit will fly in similar lift I think. Stick to a target weight of about 35 ounces or less and you should be OK...granted you'll be saving it for those better days. Besides, you could always road trip to Fermin!!!

You can make an F-80 fairly light if the layup is not a heavy Fermin style. Stick Bass LEs on the wing, cover it with monokote and keep a nice light balsa tail on it and it should come out in the high 20s to low 30s. Don't overdo the bondo fillets and get the gear as far forward as you can. You sould need not need any nose weight if your carefull as it has a fairly long schnoze on it. The F-80 and the Aircobra have the same planform and both fly well. the Cobra is slightly better mainly due to a larger Vertical tail and possibly a slighly more slippery fuse.

TFLG

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure why you are so concerned w/ weight. Back in the day we would routinely fly 40-60oz+ Slope Scale/CSD/Cliffhanger planes at Temescal. That place has great lift and not only on the epic days. If you want some "mini Fermin" action, fly down in the bowl 100yds south. Most of our PSSer were built with 1/32nd ply, basswood LE and 2-6oz glass. Fuses were medium/heavy layup. I really can't remember any plane i had that wouldn't fly well there.
just my .02
stu

Originally Posted by 1000MPH

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure why you are so concerned w/ weight. Back in the day we would routinely fly 40-60oz+ Slope Scale/CSD/Cliffhanger planes at Temescal. That place has great lift and not only on the epic days. If you want some "mini Fermin" action, fly down in the bowl 100yds south. Most of our PSSer were built with 1/32nd ply, basswood LE and 2-6oz glass. Fuses were medium/heavy layup. I really can't remember any plane i had that wouldn't fly well there.
just my .02
stu

There it is! I knew there was a PSS following in the Temescal area! Thanks Stu! Cliff Hanger... You're old! LOL!!!

Well, I guess that answers my question, LOL! Thanks, Stu. The Temescal crowd nowadays is almost all foamies 90% of the time.

Was flying my Pixel Pitcheron there yesterday afternoon, minding my own business, and three guys throw out foamies and start doing combat. I asked for clearance to land, and on my landing approach, one of the nudnicks knocks me clean into the fuselage from underneath. Busted my servo tray and I immediately lost all control in one wing!

Ever try to fly a pitcheron with only one functioning wing? By some miracle I managed to avoid the PCH (and the water) and ditched on the beach. Scariest 60 seconds of my life (except that time I was snorkeling and got chased by sharks)...

Good news is I have the plane back, with all gear - didn't even get it wet...She will fly again, a little heavier and a little stronger.

Wow, in the 20+ years of flying there I never made it to the beach . Glad you got the pixel back.
That's good enough reason for me to fly a sled, they don't react to foam. If you're flyin' in heavy traffic, I would also suggest basswood LE's on your tail surfaces
stu

Originally Posted by 1000MPH

Wow, in the 20+ years of flying there I never made it to the beach . Glad you got the pixel back.
That's good enough reason for me to fly a sled, they don't react to foam. If you're flyin' in heavy traffic, I would also suggest basswood LE's on your tail surfaces
stu

EPP wings react to sleds in much the same way that EPS reacts to the "new" 3M 77!!! LOL!!!

Sorry to hear about the Pixel, but glad to hear it'll live to tell SE.

Thanks, ITL. The Pixel is well on the road to recovery. A layer of six ounce cloth inside the fuse, some bondo and a lot of sanding have done the trick.

Problem with the Pixel is the opposite of most planes, however. We usually pray for damage in front of the CG. Here, almost all of the damage was in front of the CG, but I used to flew the Pixel without any nose weight. That means adding tail weight to offset the repairs...Anyway, the plane was VERY light before the crash. I think a couple of extra ounces will help it along, and with the pitcheron linkages, there was no hope of ever fitting ballast in there.

The guy that hit your plane was a nice guy. You just gotta be a little more firm with him. He just doesn't get the value of composite planes 'cause his arsenal is purely foam. But it's done and over and your pixel is back in good health. You gotta admit, landing on the beach was pretty sweet though! haha.

Jon

I'd be hesitant to call it a "landing" but let me tell you I renewed my AMA insurance that night! Jamie and I get along fine now, and he is a nice enough guy, but his lack of accountability for knocking me clean out certainly peeved me at the time.