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Apr 24, 2021, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylar
Btw, I like the sound of 12N16P motors. They sound and feel so much smoother than the 12P14P models, plus the ABC winding is easier to do.
Yes, the 12N16P does sound great, but does this configuration have an advantage over the 12N14P ???????
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Apr 24, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Could look at the inductance of the phase and compare to the other two if you’re not sure if you missed a turn either using an L/C meter or maybe you have a good multimeter
Apr 24, 2021, 12:10 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.SER
Yes, the 12N16P does sound great, but does this configuration have an advantage over the 12N14P ???????
12N/14P has more but weaker cogging steps, less torque- and -current ripple, less noise.
The closer the #statorpoles/#magnetpoles ratio to 1, but not equal to 1, the more steps and the lower the ripple.
Cogging is a magnetic effect (reluctance), winding diagram, #winds wire thickness and termination have no effect on cogging, it would be the same without any winding/coils.

The advanced version of the winding scheme calculator gives number of steps
www.bavaria-direct.co.za/scheme/calculator

But
Cogging says nothing about ...


Prettig weekend en wees voorzichtig, Ron
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; May 03, 2021 at 08:18 PM.
Apr 25, 2021, 01:28 AM
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Skylar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.SER
Yes, the 12N16P does sound great, but does this configuration have an advantage over the 12N14P ???????
Short answer: No, it doesn't have an advantage over 12N14P. I just like the sound more.

As Ron mentioned, the advanced version of the winding scheme calculator will reveal more info about the two combinations. For instance, 12N14P has an advantage with a winding factor of 0.93301, compared to 0.86603 for 12N16P. But the difference is small and you probably won't notice it while flying models.
Apr 25, 2021, 07:18 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylar
Short answer: No, it doesn't have an advantage over 12N14P. I just like the sound more.

As Ron mentioned, the advanced version of the winding scheme calculator will reveal more info about the two combinations. For instance, 12N14P has an advantage with a winding factor of 0.93301, compared to 0.86603 for 12N16P. But the difference is small and you probably won't notice it while flying models.
Many thanks to everyone for the answer, I made a motor with a 12N 16P configuration, when piloting the model, it seems to me that the torque under load is higher, but this is subjective.
Apr 25, 2021, 03:28 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuegodeth
what happens if I miss a turn?
"The self-driving car.
The technology is ready for it.
And we are too."

Commercial De zelfrijdende auto (2014) - Even Apeldoorn bellen - Centraal Beheer (1 min 1 sec)
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; Apr 26, 2021 at 10:20 AM.
Apr 25, 2021, 03:52 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.SER
... I made a motor with a 12N 16P configuration, when piloting the model, it seems to me that the torque under load is higher ...
The motor generates all the torque you 'ask' it to generate via increasing propsize and/or rpm.

IC engine behavior is very different from e-motor behavior.
IC engines try to keep a constant torque: as propsize goes up, rpm has to go down.
E-motors try to keep a constant rpm: as propsize goes up, torque has to go up.

Also
torque = current × Kt
Where Kt is the torque konstant, torque for given current.
A rewrite results in
current = torque / Kt
Where
Kt = 1/Kv
Both konstants in SI units, the torque konstant in newtonmeter per ampère, the vitesse/velocity konstant in radian per second per volt.

So an e-motor will draw all the current needed to generate the torque for swinging prop at desired rpm, pitch and diameter.

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Last edited by Ron van Sommeren; May 01, 2021 at 08:35 PM.
Apr 30, 2021, 11:59 PM
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manuel v's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylar
You only missed a turn on one tooth? There are 4 teeth per phase, so using a new napkin, torque will be down by (1 - (14 / 15)) / 4 / 3 = 0.56%. Thus the motor would theoretically still have 99.44% torque and Kv would be 0.56% higher, e.g. 1006 RPM/V instead of 1000.

I've seen bigger mistakes on motors that were wound in factories.
Turnigy what?
May 01, 2021, 12:08 AM
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manuel v's Avatar
When looking for a very specific Kv, the only way to get close is to rewind the motor asymmetrically. It has no problem and it is easy to reach the desired kv.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...F5-motor/page2 Post no. 29.

the motor chosen to rewind one quite like an FMS F4 with a Kv of 2677, a stator 22.17x22.4mm and 6 turns with a wire 48 inches long.

This motor is rewound on a ABCx3 scheme and its 6 turns the'm considering TC7.1 as 18 turns/3.
I need a Kv around 2100 for 39 to 40.000 rpm with 6slipo.

22 and 23 laps are recommended.

fore 22 turns i rewind 7,7,8 x 3.= 2190 Kv.
fore 23 turns i rewind 8,8,7 x3. = 2090 Kv.

You can easily make a winding 8 turns with 21AWG gauge. but very dificult with 20 AWG gauge.

22 t, TC7.1, predicts Rm=40.35 milliohms
23 t, TC7.1, predicts Rm=41.92 millliohms
May 01, 2021, 10:51 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
A little timesaver for the quick'n dirty Kv determination:
Winding one phase is enough, that already gives the voltage for Y/wye/star.
For Δ/delta/triangle multiply generated voltage by √3. Or divide resulting Kv by √3.

Vriendelijke groeten en wees voorzichtig, Ron
• Without a watt-meter you're in the dark ... until something starts to glow •
E-flight calculatorswatt-metersdiy motor tips&tricksCumulus MFC


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