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Nov 19, 2020, 12:38 PM
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Thread OP
Help!

Can I make a Night Timber X fly more like the Timber?


I own a Night Timber X and a Spektrum DX8 G2

Problem: The plane is too twitchy for me, and I've decided that I'm not interested in 3D, but I am interested in STOL and more scale flying. I would like to be able to bring the plane in much slower while under power.

Solution: Horizon Hobby Tech support told me that I don't need to buy a Timber to get what I want. Rather I can just reduce the throws, and download the Spektrum Advance setup for the Night Timber X, which will make my flaps and ailerons work in tandem. He said this will give me more roll authority (I understand that to mean that I can use the ailerons at slower speeds without tip stalling), and it will allow me to do the STOL landings I want. Actually he said I would be able to have the Night Timber X barely moving as I come in steep under power.


Questions:

1. Is what Horizon Hobby told me correct?
2. After I upload the Spectrum Advanced setup to my DX8 G2, then what? Do I need to flip a switch to get the flaps and the ailerons to work together? Which switch?
3. Does this downloaded setup also have high rates, low rates, EXPO and all the rest programmed in? Or is there more I need to do?
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Nov 19, 2020, 01:06 PM
Registered User
The X can land just as slow as the full span. They widened the wing cord so they could reduce span. Don't use fill span Ailerons if your trying to make it fly like a normal timber. I fly full span and it's nuts but I 3d with mine. Install the slats and normal aileron flap setup and go fly
Nov 19, 2020, 01:25 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

I'm so confused


Quote:
Originally Posted by nappyroots2182
The X can land just as slow as the full span. They widened the wing cord so they could reduce span. Don't use fill span Ailerons if your trying to make it fly like a normal timber. I fly full span and it's nuts but I 3d with mine. Install the slats and normal aileron flap setup and go fly
What do you think of this comment I received from the guy in this video. I had asked him how the Timber and the Timber X compare:
E-Flite Timber 3D and Bush Flying Demo (4 min 21 sec)


Highlighted reply
RedDevilSquadron
4 days ago
I've owned and subsequently sold a Timber X. It's too heavy to do what they designed it to do. Not light enough for 3D and too heavy for STOL as well. Even the regular Turbo Timber is a bit heavy too (RIP OG Fun Cub for the proper low wing loading) but it's the best out there as of now unless the OG FunCub comes back from the ashes.

Also, Brian Philips gave me a similar answer:

Brian Phillips
4 days ago
It flies more like a STOL plane, and less like a 3D plane. Sure you can do both with either, but the longer wings, and less crazy power system makes for a more enjoyable scale flight performance, in my very subjective opinion.
Nov 19, 2020, 01:32 PM
CR5
CR5
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdouglasj
I own a Night Timber X and a Spektrum DX8 G2

Problem: The plane is too twitchy for me, and I've decided that I'm not interested in 3D, but I am interested in STOL and more scale flying. I would like to be able to bring the plane in much slower while under power.

Solution: Horizon Hobby Tech support told me that I don't need to buy a Timber to get what I want. Rather I can just reduce the throws, and download the Spektrum Advance setup for the Night Timber X, which will make my flaps and ailerons work in tandem. He said this will give me more roll authority (I understand that to mean that I can use the ailerons at slower speeds without tip stalling), and it will allow me to do the STOL landings I want. Actually he said I would be able to have the Night Timber X barely moving as I come in steep under power.


Questions:

1. Is what Horizon Hobby told me correct?
2. After I upload the Spectrum Advanced setup to my DX8 G2, then what? Do I need to flip a switch to get the flaps and the ailerons to work together? Which switch?
3. Does this downloaded setup also have high rates, low rates, EXPO and all the rest programmed in? Or is there more I need to do?
If you think it's too twitchy now do not set it up with full span ailerons, unless you're interested in post stall type flying.
At normal speeds the full span ailerons make it roll so fast you can hardly keep track of orientation. It's fun for advanced pilots but does not make anything easier other than flying so slow that you lose roll authority.

To do STOL landings you don't need any different setup.
I don't know where you're at in regard to your pilot skills but to bring it down steep you have two options.
1. Nose up approach staying just above stall speed using the throttle to control decent rate.
2. Come in steep and allow the flaps to slow you down when you level out for the flare.

Option 1 is how you should do it but it does require a little more skill and a certain comfort level with flying on the verge of stall.

I've been considering a different setup. I'm thinking that I'm going to change the wiring to get rid of the full span ailerons and give CROW (both ailerons go up when flaps go down). I have my 2.1m Carbon Cub and both my Ultra-Stick's set up like this and it works great. It really slows the plane down on approach. You actually have to be careful not to slow down too much.

Full span is fun but definitely not something may inexperienced pilots are going to be able to use.

I don't think any of the downloads have dual rates in them, I've always just done my own radio programming so am not sure. Dual rates are very easy to setup though.

Honestly though, you should have bought the Turbo Timber for what you're wanting to do. I know you already have the X but the Turbo will be more stable and it also comes with floats which is nice.

If you're still flying with SAFE on for any part of flight then in my opinion you should still be learning the basics prior to trying to do STOL.
I get the feeling from your post that you are still in the beginner stages of RC flying and this plane is advertised as an intermediate plane, it's going to be a handful for you until you get the fundamentals down to instinct.

My advice to you if this plane is a little much to begin with would be to go buy yourself a UMX Turbo Timber. It's much easier to fly than the Timber-X and batteries for it are really cheap so you can get a lot of flights in per day without spending a bunch of money on batteries.
The little Timber also allows you to legally fly in any school field and eventually when your skills improve you can even fly it in a backyard.
Last edited by CR5; Nov 19, 2020 at 01:46 PM.
Nov 19, 2020, 01:38 PM
Registered User
I fly and STOL land like they do in the Tim X promo vids.What HH told u is true.
Plane is Not twitchy...........
Nov 19, 2020, 01:38 PM
Registered User
Clive66's Avatar
Never have cared much for my Timber X.
I have better planes for 3D & found the Timber X didn't make a great 3D plane or a great sport STOL plane either.
IMO, the wing is too short for easy, stable full flap STOL landings.
Installed the Turbo Timber wing on my Timber X & like it a lot now.
Will still hover with no problem & knife edges are about as good as before.
Outside loops are easier now (tended to snap out at the bottom of the loop before).
Also does great flat rudder turns & very stable for inverted flying.

Obviously it doesn't have a fast roll rate now, but don't really care about that.

Just got back from another 5 flights.
Nov 19, 2020, 01:42 PM
Registered User
Thread OP

Interesting...


I just started flying this year. i have crashed a lot. I was thinking I would just flip the switch on the full flaps at landing, but now there are two of you telling me not to do that, so I'll take your advice.

I am the master of STOL landing Timber X on RF9... but I'm a nervous wreck when flying the real thing. I haven't crashed in a while, but I haven't pulled off a solid STOL landing. I just try to land it gently (after a few hard landing that cracked my fuselage) and in one piece.

I can, of course, get better at this plane, but do you think I'd get more of what I want if I just purchased a Timber, or would I be better off just sticking with the Timber X?
Nov 19, 2020, 01:49 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive66
Installed the Turbo Timber wing on my Timber X & like it a lot now.

Just got back from another 5 flights.
Okay, so you have a Night Timber X 1.2, and you put on a Timber 1.5 wing? HH salesman was telling me that wouldn't work earlier. But if it works, I'll give it a try.

Will this wing fit on my Timber X:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/product.../EFL17555.html

Also, a comment said the wing does not come with servos. Is that right?

Finally, did you replace your elevator and rudder?
Nov 19, 2020, 01:54 PM
CR5
CR5
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdouglasj
I just started flying this year. i have crashed a lot. I was thinking I would just flip the switch on the full flaps at landing, but now there are two of you telling me not to do that, so I'll take your advice.

I am the master of STOL landing Timber X on RF9... but I'm a nervous wreck when flying the real thing. I haven't crashed in a while, but I haven't pulled off a solid STOL landing. I just try to land it gently (after a few hard landing that cracked my fuselage) and in one piece.

I can, of course, get better at this plane, but do you think I'd get more of what I want if I just purchased a Timber, or would I be better off just sticking with the Timber X?
I added to my post while you were typing it may help answer this post.

Keep the Timber-X if you like it but I would get something else to fly for now till you get the fundamentals pounded into your head so you're not having to think about the controls and it's just instinct. A UMX Turbo Timber would help bridge the gap without spending a lot of money. If money is not a concern then the 1.5m TT or something like a Cub would be a little more docile till you're ready for more.
Nov 19, 2020, 02:00 PM
Registered User
Clive66's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdouglasj
Okay, so you have a Night Timber X 1.2, and you put on a Timber 1.5 wing? HH salesman was telling me that wouldn't work earlier. But if it works, I'll give it a try.

Will this wing fit on my Timber X:
https://www.horizonhobby.com/product.../EFL17555.html

Also, a comment said the wing does not come with servos. Is that right?

Finally, did you replace your elevator and rudder?
Yes, that's the wing I used.
Mine isn't the Night Timber X, but the lights are the only difference.
Wings do come with the wing tip lights & wires are ran for servos, but no servos.
Didn't have to replace the tail pieces.
Did re-program the AR636 RX wing settings to the Turbo Timber settings, but didn't change the rudder & elevator settings.
Due to the narrower chord, it's necc to balance the plane at 65mm now, but that worked good for me.
Using 10.5 thru 11.8 ounce 4S 3000 - 3300's.
The weight of the plane W/O battery, is the same as before, but wing area is increased by 32 square inches.

BTW, If I ever want to go back with the Timber X wing, that would be easy to do. (don't see that happening tho)
Nov 19, 2020, 02:30 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive66
Yes, that's the wing I used.
Mine isn't the Night Timber X, but the lights are the only difference.
Wings do come with the wing tip lights & wires are ran for servos, but no servos.
Didn't have to replace the tail pieces.
Did re-program the AR636 RX wing settings to the Turbo Timber settings, but didn't change the rudder & elevator settings.
Due to the narrower chord, it's necc to balance the plane at 65mm now, but that worked good for me.
Using 10.5 thru 11.8 ounce 4S 3000 - 3300's.
The weight of the plane W/O battery, is the same as before, but wing area is increased by 32 square inches.

BTW, If I ever want to go back with the Timber X wing, that would be easy to do. (don't see that happening tho)
It's Franken X now....LOL.....As Tim X has been mutualized
Nov 19, 2020, 02:41 PM
Registered User
Clive66's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecheek1
It's Franken X now....LOL.....As Tim X has been mutualized
Nov 19, 2020, 02:44 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
I take it that you're flying the X now. But you find that it's not really in tune with you?

Looking at some videos of the Timber and the Timber X over my coffee it seems like the Timber is only marginally slower if any at all. The bigger issue seems to be the size of the control surfaces. But that can be beaten by simply reducing the surface throws as was mentioned to you.

Have you reduced the throws and flown it yet? If not that would be a great first place to start. But do this mechanically as much as you can.

You will want to do this first on a mechanical level. That means putting all the pushrods out on the outermost hole of the control horns. And then if that does not desensitize the handling enough move the pushrod connections in one hole at the servos. Only after that use the programming to reduce throw to what you find suits your tastes. You always want the servos to move through as much of their travel as you can manage.

As mentioned above certainly do NOT set up the flaps so they work with the ailerons. That will only make things worse for what you're trying to do.

After that it's a case of learning to fly the model at slow speeds near the stall. Generally this means learning to use small aileron inputs and help them with some coordinated rudder input. if you try to jam in aileron at low speeds bad things will happen on any airplane. But small to moderate amounts with some rudder to help makes a big difference. But being subtle and using small inputs for all things while flying slow helps a lot.
Nov 19, 2020, 03:10 PM
CR5
CR5
Registered User
Bruce is correct, mechanically reducing throws is a good first step if it's too sensitive for you.

When one of my flap servos started going back up on it's own (common issue) the first thing I did was move all the pushrods on the wing in one hole on the servo horn.
I did it to give the servos more mechanical advantage but it also reduces throw. This allows you to reduce the sensitivity without reducing dual rates to a point it starts messing with the AS3X (don't go below 55%).

Also, be very careful with the rudder on this one. It has a lot of power and can cause a snap roll if you're not careful. Adjust your dual rates as needed to get the rudder response you like.

Practice your slow flying up high and intentionally stall it so you can get used to the feeling and recovery at a safe height.

The dual rate numbers in the manual are simply ballpark general guidelines. You can set them to however you like in order to make the plane fly the way you want. Just remember that you have to stay above 50% (I don't go below 55% on any plane) for the AS3X and SAFE stuff to work correctly.
Just remember that fast flight needs less control surface throw than slow speed flight. So don't set the dual rates for fast flight up high or you may end up without enough control at low speed on landing approach.
You have to either to leave the throws high enough for all flight situations and learn to be gentle on the sticks or learn to flip the D/R to high rates for landings and other slow speed maneuvers.

For anyone else experiencing the flap going back up this easy and free modification has solved it for me completely and I have not had it happen since doing it.
You can get almost all the throw back in the programming (I don't fly the Timber-X on 100% as it's way more than I need for my type of flying).
Last edited by CR5; Nov 19, 2020 at 03:23 PM.
Nov 19, 2020, 03:16 PM
Registered User
If you get the CG back far enough, the plane lands alot slower. Reduce aileron throws put the slats on, and get used to the plane and you will enjoy it. My expectations are always really high, but in no way do I compare this to a typical 3d monoplane. It's built for all around fun and doesn't excel in one thing. I really enjoy it. I've had full span timbers and this does everything just as well and then some. If your really wants all out STOL, get the full span wing but it won't gain you much extra. I'll help you in anyway I can.


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