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Old Apr 13, 2002, 05:25 PM
Tim H. is offline
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F-100 Super Sabre For 90mm Fans


Well...I can't leave well enough alone can I? With all the other stuff I have going on I went and started another project! Couldn't help myself... I just love the "Hun"! In between sanding sessions on the F-16 and studying, I managed to throw together a drawing in TurboCad. I put my name on the waiting list for a Schubeler DS-51 3ph with Dieter at Shredair last week. I've got a month or more wait, so that gives my planty of time to mess around with the design.

Specs so far:
Length - 52"
Wing Span - 44"
Wing Area - 404.5"sq.
Airfoil - MH43 (6.5%)
Schubeler DS-51 3ph Fan,
Jepe 90mm Fan,
Wemotek MidiFan
16-22 Cells

Drawings are based around the Schubie fan, but the Jepe and Midi would drop right in. Drawings are almost 100% scale. A few deviations here and there for builing purposes and efficiency. Inlet is right at 97% FSA so it's right in the ball park. Who knows when it will fly. I suppose sometime after my little F-16 and the A-10 I have comming from Jepe.

Oh well, just had to show off my new brainstorm. BTW, I am SO glad I learned CAD!!!!!

Tim H.
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Last edited by Tim H.; Apr 21, 2002 at 09:46 PM.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 05:31 PM
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Color scheme possibility. Never done the bare metal thing, but heck, it would be a "high vis" possibility and I think it looks better than the green-brown camo.
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 06:57 PM
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Cool! Sign me up for a couple of them!
Old Apr 13, 2002, 10:27 PM
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F100


I'll take one. Sign me up.
Old Apr 14, 2002, 03:07 AM
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Tim - you can never have enough projects
Looks good and the paint pic look awesome. Doing one in fiberglass shouldnt be very tricky as the fuselage has a simple curvature..hmmm....
Old Apr 14, 2002, 09:31 AM
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I was thinking wood for prototype, then fiberglass. Your rightHaldor , the fuse should be an easy one to mold. ...and I guess the list is starting...

Tim
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Last edited by Tim H.; Apr 14, 2002 at 10:46 AM.
Old Apr 15, 2002, 01:25 AM
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@Tim
looks like we love the same jets,
last two weeks i was thinking and planing a F-100 D,
will do the wings this week
hull will be glasfibre

Wing Span : 143 cm
Length : 118 cm
Airfoil - MH43 (6.5%)
Schubeler DS-51 3ph Fan 20 Cells
Old Apr 15, 2002, 09:09 AM
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I'll take a couple from whoever markets them first! And maybe one more from the second person to market them as well.

The F-100 should lend itself to EDF and the DS-51 in particular. I really like this fan and plan to have more aircraft that use it. I do wonder how the inlet will be formed though. The F-100 Super Sabre had a sharp inlet lip for supersonic flight whereas the F-86 Sabre had a nice rounded inlet for subsonic flight. How do the designers propose to shape the inlet for EDF? Will some "allowances" be made in the scale inlet?
Last edited by Dr. Jet; Apr 15, 2002 at 09:20 AM.
Old Apr 15, 2002, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kerberos
@Tim
looks like we love the same jets,
last two weeks i was thinking and planing a F-100 D,
will do the wings this week
hull will be glasfibre

Wing Span : 143 cm
Length : 118 cm
Airfoil - MH43 (6.5%)
Schubeler DS-51 3ph Fan 20 Cells
Great minds...

I may start this week on it. I don't know yet. I might just build a quick 1/2 size fuse. just to see if all the formers work out. I can't cut the cores because my foam cutter hasn't arrived yet. Should be just a few days though. Then I'll get some foam and cut the cores for this and my F-16. Right now I'm still in the drawing stage though. I am going to try to get everything so it will be easy to build, light, and strong. I have a few choices to make too. I've got to figure out if the battery pack will go under the canopy area, or under the wing and duct area. plenty of room in both areas, but design elements are different for each. I might just draw it both ways and then decide as I'm building.
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Jet
I do wonder how the inlet will be formed though. The F-100 Super Sabre had a sharp inlet lip for supersonic flight whereas the F-86 Sabre had a nice rounded inlet for subsonic flight. How do the designers propose to shape the inlet for EDF? Will some "allowances" be made in the scale inlet?
I'm of the opinion that rouned inlet lips with a large radius are important at low airspeeds but as airspeed increases the amount of air coming it increases and most of the air is coming straight at the inlet and not from the sides. When at rest, air will come from the front and sides, and a radiused inlet with say 1/4" radiuse will greatly increas static thrust since air coming from the sides can turn gradually instead of sharply as would be the case with no inlet lip fitted. It's like turning a car gradually like on a freeway or sharply like making a right turn onto a side street. Try to take the side street at freeway speeds and you'll end up in the 7-11 on the other side of the street!

For a built up type of construction with balsa inlets on like say the Cox/EJF F-18, just rounding off the leading edge of balsa sheet that forms the inlets is good enough. I think those are about 3/32" sheet? I don't know if it's double thickness. If it was double thickness up front then you could make an even larger radius and increase the static thrust but since this plane is usually hand or bungee launched the extra weight of the extra layer of balsa is not really needed. Once you get up on step a large radius doesn't matter as much, but it's ok to have it if it's there anyway.

If the skin on the Super Sabre is say 3/32" balsa and the inlet liner is 3/32" balsa also then where they meet up front could be radiused nicely. Or maybe there would be a bulkhead up front and the actual nose is formed by 1/4 or 3/8" sheet and sanded to shape with a nice radius.

Sweet!
Old Apr 15, 2002, 01:56 PM
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The most efficient inlet lip for your ducted fans is going to be a 1x2 ellipse. That's what you should be trying to achieve when shaping the inlet lip.
Old Apr 16, 2002, 01:55 PM
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F100 fuse. station photo


Tim, here's a photo of fuse. stations and profile. Got these and others from El Paso, Texas in the 1980's. May help you.
Old Apr 17, 2002, 02:54 PM
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Thanks Oski... AdmiralRed (james) sent me some pretty good 3-views that I was able to use for the plans.

Inlet... Inlet area is 96% FSA. It will have a nice smooth inlet lip. Not quite as sharp as scale, but not real thick either. I have about 3/16"x1/4" to work with in that area.

Plans are done, however the little details are being addressed now such as stringer cutouts on the formers, hatch placement and size, ducting cutouts, etc. The plans are being drawn with the intent of having everything laser cut. So things are slower in some areas than would normally be the case. I have also designed the fuse to be self jigging on the building board. Kind of an unconventional aproach, but hey, sometimes you just gotta "think outside the box".

I may build a mock front fuse area tonight just to check to make sure everything fits correctly. I will also use this to mold the canopy, and hatch area. Pics may be posted later tonight depending on what time I get off work today.

See Ya... Tim H.
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Last edited by Tim H.; Apr 17, 2002 at 07:34 PM.
Old Apr 22, 2002, 12:46 AM
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Plans are done and construction has started. Well, sort of... I am building the front 1/3 of the fuselage in order to check to see if my measurements are working out. So far, so good and Everything fits. I am also going to use this front fuse. to make the mold for the canopy. Drawing in CAD sure does make things nice. Here's a pic so far...
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Old Apr 22, 2002, 12:47 AM
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Partially sheeted. This thing is going together great! Makes me wish I would have done the whole fuselage????
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