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Oct 27, 2020, 07:14 AM
EBE
EBE
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Discussion

Lidberg TA152H


So about 18 years ago I purchased a set of plans from A.A. Lidberg for his TA152H - an aircraft that I've always liked the lines of. The plans came with two canopies (now rather yellowed), and two of those "Easter Egg" spinners.

Today I began cutting balsa and starting the build. For once, I'm going to follow the instructions as written up by Mr. Lidberg.

Has anyone built one of these before? What problems may I encounter? Any tips on getting good flight times out of this plane?

Any and all advice/ideas are appreciated!

--ElJay
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Oct 27, 2020, 09:41 AM
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https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1760140

Here's a build log by Sopwith Mike from Oct 2012
Oct 27, 2020, 09:42 AM
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....duplicate...
Oct 27, 2020, 11:53 AM
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I built one when the kit just came out and it turned out beautifully and went together quite well. The only thing I would suggest is to treat it like a competition free flight as it is a big plane. That means make the nose assembly bullet-proof with plywood and a thicker music wire prop shaft. Include thrust adjustments made with tiny screws and treat the rubber motor with respect. It will take a big prop and LOTS of torque to turn it. The prop shaft at .047 music wire was just too weak and would bend and I finally went to .051 which regrettably is hard to bend without a good bench vise and tools. Don't solder anything and expect it to hold. I would review different approaches to props, freewheelers, and motor hooks from some competition websites to get an idea of how to go. Plan on using a blast tube as if the motor ever lets go while winding, the model is toast. I would also recommend a torque-meter (simple to make) rather than counting winds to measure and control your power. Notice this has nothing to do with the kit or building but flying procedures. I don't know your rubber flying experience and I may be singing to the choir here. In any case, it is a great kit and model and you will greatly enjoy it.
Oct 27, 2020, 12:18 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
40 inch span!? This will be a fun build!

For that size I'm not above the idea of even 3/32 wire for the prop shaft just to fend off hard landing bends. For bending the hook we can heat that portion of the wire up to a dull red to anneal it. But do withdraw from the flame SLOWLY over about a 20 second time so it doesn't air quench back to hard. Not likely but why take the chance. Even annealed it will still be tough but doable. A neater job would come from using a wire bender.

With this sort of size a wheel collar with the set screw into a filed or ground flat on the front of the shaft will avoid any surprises.

The above pretty much sums up all my front ends on models from 36" and up. I did some 1/16" wire shafts on my earlier models and got tired of them wobbling after even a moderate dork that was too soft to even worry about damage.

So now for me it's 1/32 up to Bostonian 16" sizes. .045 for up to maybe 20". 1/16 up to 34 and maybe a lighter 36"er. Then 3/32 past that.

On this 40" Ta I'd have no reservations on using 3/32.

I like the idea of the torque meter too. Perhaps look at buying an arrow shaft to use for the outer tube, some suitable wire for the core. A long meter like this can then double as the extension for the motor for sliding the blast tube in and out.
Oct 27, 2020, 12:19 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Sorry, odd double tap event....
Oct 27, 2020, 02:28 PM
EBE
EBE
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Tom Arnold and BMatthews,
Thanks for your responses and ideas. Interestingly, I was reading the instructions that came with the plans, and was thinking that if the rubber broke, the fuselage would fragment. So I was already thinking of a blast tube. I do have composite experience, so I'm thinking that a tube made of fiberglass or C fiber, or a combination thereof will be the way to go. It will also stiffen the fuselage nicely.

However, your thoughts about the size of the prop shaft had not occurred to me. Your advice will be taken! I'm also a metalworker, and can braze, weld, etc... so making up a sturdy enough shaft (with ball bearings??? Hmmm... there's a thought) will not be a problem.

Remitt, thanks for the link to the earlier build.

Thanks again for all of your input! --ElJay
Oct 27, 2020, 07:24 PM
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I have tried the internal blast tube idea before but found there was a heavy price to pay (pun intended). I think that is what you were considering with the comment on strengthening the fuselage, no? Depending on where you place the motor peg, that light ride-along blast tube may well put weight so far behind the CG that you will wind up having to load even more ballast in the front. The beauty of the Ta-152 is its long nose for rubber and if the peg is located such that the center of the motor is over the CG of the airplane, you will have the best of all worlds. To take that rare gift and load on extra weight to haul around for no flying benefit, is, well....interesting. Motors don't blow in the air, only while winding. The 4 seconds it takes to slide a blast tube out is such a cheap price to keep things light. I am kind of down on the ride-along blast tube because I killed what should have been a great flying airplane with my attempts at it but you may have better luck.
Last edited by Tom Arnold; Oct 27, 2020 at 07:34 PM.
Oct 27, 2020, 07:36 PM
EBE
EBE
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Thanks, Tom, for your blast tube thoughts/experiences. Since I haven't constructed the blast tube yet (one of today's things to do), I can go either way at this time. And your points will be considered.

--ElJay
Oct 28, 2020, 07:56 PM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi ElJay

Tom Arnold may recall a few years back at Geneseo when one of these airplanes won the WWII mass launch event. These events typically draw 50+ flyers, so that's no mean feat. I was the mechanic for Luc's airplane that day...

I was helping Luc trim the airplane prior to the event- Luc is a fine builder, but hadn't actually trimmed out a lot of airplanes. I suggested we drop to three loops of 3/16" (maybe 1/4"?) since 4 loops was definitely too much. The airplane was always nice and stable- clearly had a decent cg range. I recall that Luc had put a bunch of motor peg mounting positions in the airplane- I think we were probably at 1/2 way between the wing TE and the stab LE, but don't hold me to it.

My guess is that Luc build the airplane box stock, so I don't think it needs much in the way of tweaks. I also don't recall using a blast tube- but I agree with Tom- would never mount one in the airplane.

Sam
Oct 30, 2020, 02:13 AM
EBE
EBE
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Thread OP
To all who were concerned - no blast tube will be in the plane. The point about the CG being too far to the rear was what decided me.

I've been building the fuselage, and got in a good day's work yesterday. Tomorrow I'll get a photo or two and post them here. In spite of good intentions, it will be obvious to all that I did not follow Lidberg's instructions!!

--ElJay
Oct 30, 2020, 01:47 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
It's pretty tough to build a blast tube in and not have it come with far too much a weight penalty.

Here in North America I've seen and bought protective tubes intended to be slipped over the smaller size T8 florescent tubes. If you can find those they are made from a tough and resilient plastic which is superb for a blast tube.

The other way that I really want to try in the near future is externally winding the motor and then using a "C" shaped tray to transfer the motor to the model and then connect the prop and fly. It seems like near enough to the ultimate safe way to wind the motor with low risk to the model. And from the videos I've seen of this method the time from reaching full turns to launch is about the same as using a blast tube with extension wires and all that other stuff. So that's another method you might consider.
Oct 30, 2020, 07:45 PM
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FYI: the January 2005 issue of Free Flight Quarterly has an article on a Giant Scale Ta152H by Bill Henn. He took the Lidberg plan and modified it. Worth checking out if your into the TA152H. The magazine is available at the Free Flight Quarterly website.

http://freeflightquarterly.com/wordpress/
Oct 31, 2020, 09:15 PM
EBE
EBE
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Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMatthews
It's pretty tough to build a blast tube in and not have it come with far too much a weight penalty.

Here in North America I've seen and bought protective tubes intended to be slipped over the smaller size T8 florescent tubes. If you can find those they are made from a tough and resilient plastic which is superb for a blast tube.

The other way that I really want to try in the near future is externally winding the motor and then using a "C" shaped tray to transfer the motor to the model and then connect the prop and fly. It seems like near enough to the ultimate safe way to wind the motor with low risk to the model. And from the videos I've seen of this method the time from reaching full turns to launch is about the same as using a blast tube with extension wires and all that other stuff. So that's another method you might consider.
Do you have a link to a video? I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this!
Thanks! --ElJay
Nov 01, 2020, 08:53 AM
EBE
EBE
Registered User
Thread OP
Hey B Matthews,
I found a vid, so don't need the link. Also figured out how to make one of these external winders.

--ElJay


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