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Sep 19, 2020, 10:56 AM
InJamNoOneCanHearYouScrea m
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Discussion

Planning For Failure & Transparency NATS 2021


Ladies and Gentlemen,

Please provide your input for the following:

1. Stay with the current NATS schedule and location: Muncie 7/25 - 8/1 on field soaring. XC will be offsite beforehand.
2. Triple Tree NATS: 7/17-7/25
3. Muncie NATS: 8/21-8/29 (Site 4 and Site 5 Available)

PLANNING FOR FAILURE:
On 7/30/20 at 10:36AM I received an email and schedule from the AMA ,which included all the SIGs, that the AMA would be hosting two (2 ) World Championships, F3A and F3F5D. These WCs would be held in late June early July and as such shuffling of the NATS events was in order. The schedule for the LSF was the same as this year, Sunday to Sunday and in my opinion F3K would take the hit again.

On 7/30/20 at 10:50AM I fired off an email to the AM asking for 7/24 and 7/25 Site 4 use for F3K. The AMA responded on 7/31/20 at 11:15am that all sites (1, 3, and 4) were in use by Pattern and Soaring would not have access to host onsite events until 7/25

On 7/30/20 at 10:55 AM I asked if it would be possible to move the Heli NATS to 7/25-7/28 and that way the LSF could come in behind them and have access to Site 4and Site 5. The AM responded that the Heli NATS run in conjunction to the Heli Jamboree. The AMA responded on 7/31/20 at 11:25 that the schedule was not the easiest to put together

on 7/3120at 11:30 AM the AMA responded that the F3D and F5D will run on Site 3 and F3A will uses Sites 1 and 3. Since it is a World Championship they can not schedule any other events during those events.

On 9/15/20 the AMA asked if I had and issue with the schedule.

ON 9/15/20 at 110:59AM I responded that I did and that there was no chance for input into the schedule and I threw in the white towel.

On 9/15/20 at 1:35PM I sent a note to Chad Budreau , ED, of what was happening in the trenches and that I had reached out to Triple Tree which approved our request for flying days.

On 9/15/20 at 1:36 PM Chad responded that they wanted to keep the LSF at the IAC and whether it was a done decision to move. I responded it was not.

So we have been bantering back and forth afterward since then. My purpose of trying to negotiate is to make sure that all who come to the NATS have fun and get the best schedule we can, where ever it is held.

So where does "Planning For Failure" come in. The decision to move to Triple Tree was a concerted effort by me to get the AMA to include the LSF SIG into the decision making process. We were not included, the schedule came out, take it or leave it. Going to TTA was trying to get the AMA to communicate about the schedule, which they have, after the fact. TTA was asked for in case we did not want to play at AMA. Having flown at TTA during a Mid-South I was well acquainted with its limitations. If the IAC ever implodes we have to go somewhere anyway...

Transparency was airing out the dirty laundry which I have so you all are aware of what happened behind the scenes. As soon as I figure out how to attach all the email to this thread I will.

With that said I have fixed the voting error thanks to Jody, I have tried to fix the scheduling error also. I was not trying to hurt the LSF in any way. I was just trying to ensure that we were heard.

Now please leave your thoughts here on 1, 2, or 3.

V/R,
Wally

In case you need to chat:
[email protected]
(c) 603-718-9670
Beer: 5 Teak Drive, Nashua, NH 03062
Last edited by wadasczi; Sep 19, 2020 at 11:29 AM.
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Sep 19, 2020, 11:54 AM
Registered User

Option 3


Wally, thank you so much for these options...I know LSF President is a thankless job, but I appreciate your persistence on this issue!

Option 3 would be far and away my preference. We are still at Muncie, 9 full days starting on a Saturday and ending on a Sunday across two sites. The weather may be even a little better than at the end of July. The only issue I see is that school would already be back in session and that may limit participation of some parents, or our younger flyers still in school/college. It may also limit the availability of the boy scouts. That being said, it is after the Worlds, which may give us more turn out in several disciplines to include F3J/F5J.

Option 1. Still Muncie in our normal slot, but only 8 days and 1 site.

Option 2. 3T is great, but I have done a contest there in August and it was just too hot and made camping, honestly, awful. It did not get down to a comfortable temperature so you could fall asleep until after midnight each night. I would worry about the health of our flyers over a long stretch there in the middle of July. There is a reason the big events there are not held during the summer.

-Randy
Last edited by burke757; Sep 19, 2020 at 05:10 PM.
Sep 19, 2020, 02:04 PM
Loopie/Zoomie ≠ Soaring
superskeg's Avatar

Option 4


The LSF was never intended to be a local event organizer and liability lightning rod for the AMA (SIG). Restore the LSF to it's roots primarily as an international Soaring Accomplishment Program which has been supplanted by the "NATs"

A path forward for the LSF would be adding unique soaring safety guidelines to the bylaws in addition to the long established proficiency training set forth in the SAP making the LSF well suited to be a CBO which would be consistent with the original founding principals of advancing soaring world wide...not just Muncie.
V79
Last edited by superskeg; Sep 19, 2020 at 02:57 PM.
Sep 19, 2020, 04:49 PM
Registered User
Jim Deck's Avatar

Option 1


As TK pointed out, there are cost advantages to using the IAS and the LSF crew is familiar with the site. Also, I don't think that having the Heli Jamboree for neighbors would be as nice as free flighters. Keep up your good work, Wally.
Sep 19, 2020, 05:52 PM
Ron Smith
smithre6's Avatar

Option 3 or 1


Wally

Thanks for the background. I prefer the Muncie options.

Thanks
Ron
Sep 19, 2020, 07:47 PM
The Mr. Rogers of RC soaring
rdwoebke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by superskeg
making the LSF well suited to be a CBO
I'm not a lawyer and I don't know if the words in laws actually matter or not but the wording from the re-auth bill that defines community based organizations states:
provides a comprehensive set of safety guidelines for all aspects of model aviation
If that is an important part of a CBO then the mission of the LSF doesn't seem to include the scope of "all aspects of model aviation".

Ryan
Latest blog entry: Supergee wing mount pylons
Sep 20, 2020, 07:53 AM
Jody Miller
sailjester2811's Avatar
1 or 3 would be good I think.
I have flown the Nats before with the free flight guys and it wasn’t a big deal.
Really I’m good with where ever it’s held, if I can fly I’ll be there.
Sep 20, 2020, 08:26 AM
Going in circles.
GliderJim's Avatar
Options 1 and 3 are both better for me.
Sep 20, 2020, 08:32 AM
Ricky Windsock
aussief3b's Avatar
Traditionally late July/early August is usually F3J WC dates and those involved in the USA team at the WC cant attend the traditional dates in Option 1.
I vote for late August Option 3 as it IS possible for Jeff, Josh, Neal, Amy, Jody, myself, Charles, Charleston, Noah, Scott, Brayden and others to make it to the 2021 Nats (with the 2021 WC scheduled from Aug 1-7.)
Though I havent flown at TTA based on my knowledge it will be a poor substitute to Muncie as a simultaneous multi event Fying Site
Sep 20, 2020, 11:33 AM
Registered User
Don C's Avatar
For F3K #2 or #3. We lost site 4 this year for 4/5 combat contestants ( not happy with AMA for their decision. Sounds like they are going to do it again next year. F3K took one for the team this year and we should not be handicapped next year. If so I’m out.

Don
Sep 20, 2020, 12:00 PM
InJamNoOneCanHearYouScrea m
Thread OP
Folks,
My conversationalist English is not to good so I will try in another language....lol:

THERE IS NO "OR"....Pick what you prefer to fly 1, 2, 3. If you choose "OR" you leave it to the majority. I would rather have YOUR choice.
Wally
Sep 20, 2020, 12:03 PM
InJamNoOneCanHearYouScrea m
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C
For F3K #2 or #3. We lost site 4 this year for 4/5 combat contestants ( not happy with AMA for their decision. Sounds like they are going to do it again next year. F3K took one for the team this year and we should not be handicapped next year. If so I’m out.

Don
Totally agree laddie. Hence the fight.
Sep 20, 2020, 12:05 PM
The Mr. Rogers of RC soaring
rdwoebke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C
For F3K #2 or #3. We lost site 4 this year
Just throwing this out there as an idea to be germinated. Site 5 is pretty big and I have never seen site 6 or 7 used while Site 5 was used for the Nats. Could F3K be held on Saturday July 31/Sunday August 1 on site 5 (possibly by also leveraging parts of 6) while RES/NOS/2M is also flown on Site 5 (or part of 6 more likely) if RES/NOS/2M was flown from a pair of winches with retrievers instead of the standard bunch of winches with carts? About 10 years ago RES was flown off of 2 winches and with retrievers and I thought that worked OK.


Ryan
Latest blog entry: Supergee wing mount pylons
Sep 20, 2020, 03:41 PM
InJamNoOneCanHearYouScrea m
Thread OP
Ryan,
I cut and paste email. This diatribe should answer your question. The BOD thought about doing F3J along side other stuff to. Halibut we dont know what will work and what wont.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Yolanda Jones <[email protected]>
Date: Friday, Jul 31, 2020, 11:15 AM
To: Adasczik, Walter (US) <[email protected]>
Cc: Jim McCarthy <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: 2021 Nats schedule

*** WARNING ***
EXTERNAL EMAIL -- This message originates from outside our organization.

I have soaring running off site July 22-24 Pattern Nats use all of the main flying sites(1, 3 &4) during their Nationals therefore Soaring will not have access to host onsite events until July 25.

From: Adasczik, Walter (US) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 10:50 AM
To: Yolanda Jones <[email protected]>
Cc: Jim McCarthy <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: 2021 Nats schedule

Yolanda

Thinking out loud. Can I please, please, please, make the advance request for Site 4 on 7/24 and 7/25 for F3K. Site 5 will have ALES on it for those dates. I promise there will be no confliction between us and pattern. Please decrease off site to 7/22 and 7/23. The soaring community will be all set with the remainder of the dates provided!!!

Thoughts???

V/R,
Wally
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I need to send all my mail from work to home so I can cut and paste the conversations...
Wally by Golly
Sep 20, 2020, 04:56 PM
The Mr. Rogers of RC soaring
rdwoebke's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadasczi
I cut and paste email. This diatribe should answer your question.
I threw out an idea for germination regarding Site 6 on July 31/Aug1. So unless your example is simply an example of the AMA leadership being unreasonable I don't see how it relates to the idea I suggested.

Ryan
Latest blog entry: Supergee wing mount pylons


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