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Sep 10, 2020, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbreath
If that was a Boeing it would have porpoised a bit and then nosed in.
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Sep 10, 2020, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rampage
Honestly I think this was another case of someone who didn't really know what they were doing flying an extremely expensive model that was beyond their abilities with inevitable results when things got sketchy. You see that in a lot of these "scale flyin" type videos. Guys that need a lot more stick time on a high-wing trainer flying multi-thousand dollar giant scale airplanes. Yeah most of the time the plane comes down in mostly one piece (after it goes bouncing down the runway, especially with any hint of a crosswind..) but you can tell all through the flight that the airplane wasn't happy being handled the way it was.

I actually just saw a video a few days ago of a pair of giant scale Beech 18s and one of the guys is overcontrolling the airplane throughout the entire flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTW1...el=EssentialRC

Watch the red plane. I don't mean to judge but it's like the guy is banging the sticks around and a couple times in the video I think the only thing that saved the airplane was a gross overabundance of power..

I hate to be the guy that pretends to know more than someone with a beautifully-built model like this but when I'm seeing things during the flight that I learned to avoid on a basic trainer you have to wonder..

Altitude, airspeed, brains. You need 2 of the three to survive. And that airliner didn't have 2 of the 3 apparently.
It does look like he's fiddling with the sticks too much. Typically with student pilots, who tend to want to move the sticks unnecessarily. I have to keep reminding them if the plane is flying straight and level. and in the direction you want,...leave the sticks alone.
One of our former clubmembers was a heli pilot in Viet Nam who always reminded us of not running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at once.
Sage advice.
Sep 11, 2020, 09:39 AM
Team Horizon
Tomas_Simatovic's Avatar
None of you know what you're talking about. There was a large passenger who went to use the rear lavatory within 30 min prior to landing. Either that or someone used their cellphone without airplane mode, hence the stall and spin.
Sep 11, 2020, 09:58 AM
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Jason Cole's Avatar
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Now we get the truth! LOL Tomas!!
Sep 11, 2020, 10:32 AM
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turbonut's Avatar
After watching the video closely I think I know what happens...If you watch at the 4:24 mark he has all 4 engines..Then in the last pass he has clearly lost 2 of the engines....
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Sep 11, 2020, 12:55 PM
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radfordc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut
After watching the video closely I think I know what happens...If you watch at the 4:24 mark he has all 4 engines..Then in the last pass he has clearly lost 2 of the engines....
Even if that's so, it's no reason to crash the plane. Real airliners have landed on one engine or even none! A spin is caused by exceeding the critical angle of attack on one wing. A highly swept, narrow tip wing just makes it worse.
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Sep 11, 2020, 01:12 PM
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skyracer068's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledBastard
I'm a rookie at R/C but not at flying full scale. That plane spent most of its time in uncoordinated flight. He skidded through turns and over-banked over and over again. I thought it was coming down long before it actually did!
Exactly. Too slow while uncoordinated. Typical stall.
Sep 11, 2020, 04:52 PM
Registered User
If you build a model with swept wings, beware. If you build a model with wing cross sections anything like a modern airliner, beware. The full scale equivalents never exceed 25 AOB.

Swept wing aircraft exhibit none of the pre-stall warning signs associated with straight wings. If you’re lucky, you might see some wing rock. More often than not, the first sign will be autorotation.

Keep the speed up and the AOB low.
Sep 11, 2020, 09:19 PM
Registered User
the differance from the real plane too the model is the flight computer which keeps everything steady along with lots of alarms.. the little plane did not have that hint wing tip stall to the ground, super easy on an airliner, in addition to yawls planes.. . air speed, air speed , airspeed..
Sep 12, 2020, 12:25 AM
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Zeeb's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut
After watching the video closely I think I know what happens...If you watch at the 4:24 mark he has all 4 engines..Then in the last pass he has clearly lost 2 of the engines....
Yeah right.... blame the airplane, what are you a professional full scale guy? That's the argument they all use when it's been determined that the accident rate on full scale stuff attributed to pilot error is in the high 90 percentile.....

Pilots don't have engines designed to quit on one side.......
Sep 12, 2020, 09:15 AM
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JohnBuckner's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbonut
After watching the video closely I think I know what happens...If you watch at the 4:24 mark he has all 4 engines..Then in the last pass he has clearly lost 2 of the engines....
Perhaps you are watching another video. I didn.t I see any four engine RC planes but I did see a twin that stalled and rolled in.

John
Sep 12, 2020, 10:16 AM
Information Sponge
GrizzledBastard's Avatar
WHOOOOSH........right over some of your heads went Turbonut's comment.

The video cuts to a 4 engine jet, then back to the 2, and then it crashes.
Sep 12, 2020, 11:34 AM
Registered User
The weather came in really fast it was a major contributor .
Sep 12, 2020, 02:26 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledBastard
WHOOOOSH........right over some of your heads went Turbonut's comment.

The video cuts to a 4 engine jet, then back to the 2, and then it crashes.
lol, I was wondering when someone was going to speak up :-)

Looks like a stall to me. That elevator movement at 0:40 though, very disturbing. I would NOT be taking off if I saw that before taxi :-) That it coincided with flap deployment might also indicate that is what happened in flight. Could have been deploying flaps at that point, although it seems late for that to me. Maybe an errant flap-elevator mix??
Sep 13, 2020, 05:47 PM
Registered User
Several of the previous comments are spot on as to the probable cause of the crash. Obviously, whoever built this model is very gifted, the behavior of the model isn’t necessarily a result of the pilot’s inexperience rather possible design omissions or flaws.
Repeatedly watching the video, the A330 model exhibits a classic stall followed by a spin of swept wing airplanes or in general un-swept highly tapered wings.
My following observations are based in that I have type ratings for the A320, A330 and A350.
The perceived loss of thrust is when the model is pointing toward the viewer reducing the noise footprint. Instead, just prior to the stall the nose rises slightly and you can hear the pilot command full thrust. Just as in full scale transport aircraft, with an increase in thrust the low-slung engines will pitch the nose further up. The first step for stall recovery is to unload the wing by “pushing” the nose towards the horizon and not increasing thrust. The steps are push, roll, then power, and stabilize. In the video I see the landing gear is down however I do not see the flaps lowered which would help avoid a tip stall.
Granted the Airbus flight control stability systems are very sophisticated and allow the pilot to fully extract the maximum desired performance such as recovery during a wind shear encounter. Situations may arise with computer system failure(s) resulting in “direct law” where by the pilot’s control inputs are directly sent to the control surfaces. In direct law (in the simulator) I have held all three of these airplanes in full stalls and they are vice free with absolutely no tendency to spin. With a clean wing (flaps and leading-edge devices stowed) and auto thrust disconnected and set to idle, while held in deep stall, the A330 retains excellent roll control as the wingtips are not stalled. The gentle handling of these airliners is a tribute to excellent design teams.
The A330 benefits from a series of leading-edge devices (slats and slots) to temper stall behavior not easily replicated on a scale model.
More importantly the A330 wing has a generous amount of “washout” and this is key to good stall behavior. My estimate is that the full scale A330 wing has at least seven degrees of washout.
As touched on previously airfoil geometry along the wingspan is critical.
To summarize for a tapered and swept wing with gentle stall behavior:
1. Generous amount of washout.
2. Airfoil geometry along the span
3. Leading edge devices.
If possible, I would be informative to learn from the designer/builder of this beautiful model what design features were used on its wing.
Sad ending to a beautiful airplane and lot of very hard work.
Last edited by drive320; Sep 13, 2020 at 08:09 PM.


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