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Jul 30, 2020, 10:21 AM
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krafty's Avatar
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Question

Spektrum Model Match


Pretty basic question here. I have been a Spektrum flyer from about a year after it appeared on the uk market and I currently have old models DX7 and DX8 transmitters and a bunch of mainly DSM2 receivers of all flavours along with a couple of Lemon DSMX receivers. I currently live in France and since the latest generation of the EU version of the DX8 only does DSMX it is of no interest to me as an upgrade. However I am reluctant to move away from Spektrum because I can be prone to forgetfulness, and Spektrum Model-Match is a godsend.
Now the question. If I buy one of these multi-protocol transmitters like a Jumper, and I switch it to Spektrum protocol, do I get Spektrum Model-Match or is that in some way particular to a "Spektrum brand" transmitter? And if it does allow model match will it work both with DSMX and DSM2 receivers, or is that banned by the EU?
Ken Croft, late of NE England.
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Jul 30, 2020, 11:06 AM
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richard hanson's Avatar
Good question
Model Match works on Spektrum tx when you select a new tx slot for each model and rx
Very good idea
You can defeat it
Very bad idea in most instances
Jul 30, 2020, 11:09 AM
Sagitta Fanboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by krafty
Pretty basic question here. I have been a Spektrum flyer from about a year after it appeared on the uk market and I currently have old models DX7 and DX8 transmitters and a bunch of mainly DSM2 receivers of all flavours along with a couple of Lemon DSMX receivers. I currently live in France and since the latest generation of the EU version of the DX8 only does DSMX it is of no interest to me as an upgrade. However I am reluctant to move away from Spektrum because I can be prone to forgetfulness, and Spektrum Model-Match is a godsend.
Now the question. If I buy one of these multi-protocol transmitters like a Jumper, and I switch it to Spektrum protocol, do I get Spektrum Model-Match or is that in some way particular to a "Spektrum brand" transmitter? And if it does allow model match will it work both with DSMX and DSM2 receivers, or is that banned by the EU?
Ken Croft, late of NE England.
They will sort-of do Model Match, you have to manually select the model ID for each model slot when setting the model up. This works for DSMX, DSM2 and the FrSky X protocols.

As they are DSM2 capable, they are not legal to use or import into the EU or UK. No DSM2 capable transmitter is legal to use in the EU if manufactured or imported after January 2015.
Jul 30, 2020, 11:43 AM
65 years of RC flying
Daedalus66's Avatar
To stay legal you need to do one of two things:

1. Accept that DSM2 is obsolete and go to DSMX equipment. (I do know DSM2 still works, as I use some myself.)

2. Look for a good used pre-2015 transmitter that does both DSM2 and DSMX. Such as a DX8 or DX9.
Jul 30, 2020, 11:47 AM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
Just a suggestion
Stick with a Model. Match tx
A latest model
Buy latest versions rx
You get the latest improvements in technology, related to signal , very worthwhile and you get some pretty handy features to boot
Why mess around
Jul 30, 2020, 01:07 PM
Sagitta Fanboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard hanson
Just a suggestion
Stick with a Model. Match tx
A latest model
Buy latest versions rx
You get the latest improvements in technology, related to signal , very worthwhile and you get some pretty handy features to boot
Why mess around
I understand why the OP wouldn't want to move. It's a LOT cheaper to buy a new lower-end TX than to replace a bunch of receivers.

Unfortunately the EU regulations preclude legally retaining DSM2 compatibility in a newer transmitter.
Jul 31, 2020, 02:57 AM
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krafty's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mawz
I understand why the OP wouldn't want to move. It's a LOT cheaper to buy a new lower-end TX than to replace a bunch of receivers.

Unfortunately the EU regulations preclude legally retaining DSM2 compatibility in a newer transmitter.
You clearly understand the problem.
I have a DX7 and a DX8, both transmitters are the early versions and are DSM2 and DSMX capable. I have 13 fully equipped models and all have DSM2 receivers. A number of the models also have satellite receivers. As spare receivers I have of DSM2 flavour, 7 by Lemon, 4 genuine Spektrum and 4 by Orange. I have 2 or 3 spare DSM2 satellites. Of spare DSMX flavour I have just 2 made by Lemon.
Ok, so I could just dump all the spares on fleabay apart from the two that are DSMX and install those in models. That would then leave 11 models needing their receivers to be replaced by DSMX versions. The cheapest DSMX I can find that I would use are by Lemon at $15.25 each plus postage to France , so a minimum total cost of 11 x $15.25 is $167 plus postage. Yes, I could comfortably spend that, but for what gain? I am a sport flyer in a club with just 14 members. We fly out in the wilds where the air waves are not contaminated by nearby hospitals, police etc and we do not have any problems with interference. There are never more than 4 or 5 flyers on the field at one time. It is clearly not illegal to fly DSM2 with my current equipment and all my models are legally registered. I have no NEED for a new transmitter, I just fancy one with a few frills like a voice, and more specifically one that I can link to another as a buddybox with wifi rather than with a dangling wire. But $300 for a new transmitter plus maybe $180 for new DSMX receivers? Maybe selling my two current transmitters might go towards some of the outlay. Pity really, I doubt that I shall bother. If only some Russian hacker could tell me how to illegally change an EU DX8 2nd gen to DSMX plus DSM2 I would be a happy but illegal bunny. I would risk it.
Ken in SW France
Jul 31, 2020, 11:25 AM
Registered User
krafty's Avatar
Thread OP
And a further question.
Since DSM2 is not allowed in Europe on new radio transmitters being sold since 2015 or what ever the date was, why are FrSky, Jumper, Radiomaster and no doubt other companies, selling multi-protocol transmitters including DSM2 and DSMX. Are they about to get caught out or is our hobby so trivial that the authorities actually don't care.
Ken in France
Jul 31, 2020, 11:35 AM
Registered User
Frsky are legal because they have eu firmware that is compliant with the regulations.

The others that rely on the multi-protocol modules certify their radios under very specific configurations that are legal. if the customer does something different, that isn't their problem.
Jul 31, 2020, 12:17 PM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by krafty
And a further question.
Since DSM2 is not allowed in Europe on new radio transmitters being sold since 2015 or what ever the date was, why are FrSky, Jumper, Radiomaster and no doubt other companies, selling multi-protocol transmitters including DSM2 and DSMX. Are they about to get caught out or is our hobby so trivial that the authorities actually don't care.
Ken in France
I think,in 2015 jan, the new EU regs went into effect
All vendors who are affected by these regs should offer equipment which is in compiiance.
You might check this for your own satisfaction as to what is available
.
Jul 31, 2020, 12:22 PM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by derelicte
Frsky are legal because they have eu firmware that is compliant with the regulations.

The others that rely on the multi-protocol modules certify their radios under very specific configurations that are legal. if the customer does something different, that isn't their problem.
I know Spektrum complies
The other groups ?
Beats me
Radio vendors today are a dime a dozen
Jul 31, 2020, 12:32 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by derelicte
The others that rely on the multi-protocol modules certify their radios under very specific configurations that are legal. if the customer does something different, that isn't their problem.
If they include a way for the customer to be able to put the product into a non-compliant mode, they may still have problems.

As you may know, early DX6i radios had the ability to toggle between US and EU modes. When there was another (unrelated) change, they also needed to make that function go away in order to have the product legal (the older version was grandfathered, but the grandfathering went away when the change was made).

So, depending on how easy it is to get into an illegal mode, they could still have trouble. I think NetGear got whacked for it at one point as well.

Andy
Jul 31, 2020, 02:18 PM
Registered User
Tony Oliver's Avatar
Andy - you are more qualified to speak on this than I am, especially on the technical aspects of what was, is and may be possible.
To me, I think the wider problem is that we are led to believe that 'compliant' means people in authority - in this case of the radio frequencies around the world - believe that they know what is best for us. That is often the case but recently we have many instances of knee-jerk reactions by individual countries hearing about this 'good' set of rules without any clear understanding or knowledge of how it applies to the use in their own country by their own residents. They apply sticking-plaster (band aid?) rules to try and cover the change. That results in this situation we are now into. Look to the drone legislation for the worst of this.

Australia and New Zealand seem to have gone into stupid mode and from what I read on RCG and the USA legislators seem to have used it to bash the daylights out of model flying and drones. That parallels the UK to some extent.
The odd thing is that no one appears to know where all this originates. If it was a Parliament or individual legislatures you could understand and do something like not vote for them. Or at least discuss it calmly. However the headless stupid mode is still there and they 'comply' without a clear reason or understanding.
The early Spektrum was a breath of fresh air and it was so good that it easily kept ahead of me - nothing unusual there! DSM2 spread the word and we all bought it and together with Spektrum service we used it without any worries. DSMX is a different thing and has good reason to be the latest actual development and it was seamless in transition but - as my friend Krofty says You don't throw away years and lots of money because some faceless people say so.
I have a similar number of aircraft ready to fly. I am lucky to have inherited a DX6 of the transitional 'either/or' DSM2/DSMX. However I would like to use the capabilities of my models to be fit into one tx. I didn't get the chance to get DX8 before the EU and UK dropped the DSM2 . So I have to stick with refurbishing my 6 channel models to a DSMX tx with new rxs or keep them on limited 6 channel setups. Don't even ask about the 6 boats.
Carting around 2 transmitters?
I don't know of any answer to all this. It's a mess made by people who seem to have nothing better to occupy them. I'm beginning to think X-jet is more right than wrong.
Sorry about this if it appears a tirade but nothing seems to have been gained and a huge amount of public money and other resources have been poured into it to no useful outcome.
Jul 31, 2020, 02:57 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
You can thank the bureaucrats in Brussels for the mess.

Andy
Jul 31, 2020, 03:01 PM
Registered User
richard hanson's Avatar
The EU regs , if you read em had a couple of good points
One was to prevent anyone from hogging a part of the allocated frequencies
Another was to require that users bounce around the entire allowable frequencies at a min tate.
There is a LOT more, but these ideas were to keep the allotted airwaves open for all.
I read the whole thing wnen it was published
Perfect?
At least it had good intent and didnt appear to pander to anyone in particular
Which for a government Edict,is extraordinary
A good informative sleep aid.
Last edited by richard hanson; Jul 31, 2020 at 03:08 PM.


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