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May 01, 2005, 05:49 PM
mig-29 freak
Fulcrum's Avatar
Thread OP

SU-27 and Mig-29 vaccum molding


hi,

here are some pics of our attemps to mold jet airframe in fiber glass, especially, for the moment, SU-27 and Mig-29 airframes.

The SU-27 airframe will be from a Tom Nelson dedicated roofmate master from his famous known SU-27 model.

The Mig-29 will be from my own handmade work based on sections got from airwar.ru

All the work is a team work based on David (Dba) vaccum molding technique.

The first steps of the project concern Tom's SU-27, an airframe of about 70 cm wingspan, the mig 29 is of the same wingspan. these two birds at that scale are well propelled by Mega 16/15/4 (tom's SU-27) or 15/5 (my own dépron mig-29, se my avatar) under 3s lipo, that is for that reason that I was considering that scale.
The next project will be a mig-29 of 90cm winspan for two wemo 480 and after that maybe a bigger project for a mig-29 of 1.5m wingspan for a turbofan (a project of Eric).
The team member are for the team nucleus Myself (Jean-luc alias Fulcrum), David alias Dba, Jean-Claude alias P'tit Louis, Eric, participate also Patrick and Tom Neslon for the SU-27 master.

I was the initiator of the mig-29 project while considering the fine David's vaccum molding technique. David was very enthousiastic to share his molding technique and ready to consider to improved it through that project. I handmade a mig-29 master and P'tit Louis, a veteran freak of jet, was ok to work on a second mig-29 master coming from hot wire CNC cutting, the work of Patrick. On my request or proposition Tom was ok to consider to build a dedicated SU-27 airframe in two parts. Eric is working on the mig-29 master of 90 cm wingspan by CNC hot wire cutting.

I will present here the first pics of our work on the Tom's SU-27 airframe.


You can see David controlling the running vaccum step and David holding in hands his vaccum regulator while waiting for an electronic one on which Eric is working. On a pic there is also Philippe a strapping buddy who builds interesting depron aircrafts as his Canadair or his coming flying fortress (I will post some photos of his aircraft in foamies). You can also see the upper part of the Tom's SU-27 under the glossy film after the vaccum was done.

After this first assay we will continue in 15 days at the occasion of our new workshop meeting. During that time i will continue to finish my mig master which lacks the rear beams, exhaust nozzles and the bevel of air intake.

I will complete the post as soon as we will have new progress

bye bye
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May 01, 2005, 07:51 PM
Lover of scale R/C
Matt Halton's Avatar
Looks very interesting, I look foward to more on this.

Matt
May 01, 2005, 11:51 PM
Registered User
cyberfly's Avatar
looks good, I like it

May 02, 2005, 01:08 AM
Clear prop!
DiabloKid's Avatar
looks like it will be a nice project

good luck and keep us posted

matt
May 02, 2005, 08:10 AM
Registered User
Thomas Nelson's Avatar
Give my regards & best wishes to the team, Jean-Luc! Here's hoping the little Flanker proves useful to you all.

Looks like the area forward of the canopy was quite badly damaged in transit. Was there any other damage besides what I see there?

Tom
May 02, 2005, 06:03 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
cool! And if you run into probs when you get the resin in there, cause it hampers vacuum, just lay thin plastic on the glass and resin then a layer of T.P, then a layer of thicker plastic wrap. The T.P allows air migration.


Barry
May 03, 2005, 05:36 AM
mig-29 freak
Fulcrum's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi all,

thanks for your interest. Our progress are slow because we don't live in the same town and of course each of us has also some matter to do with family and professionnal stuff.

Tom! there was no more damage than you can see on the pic. It was very light damage repaired with some kind of mastic. your SU-27 is very convenient as a probe for our project and ready on the contrary to our mig-29 master for which there is so much step to mastic and sand. At that time i am satisfied of what i have already done. now as I wrote i have to concentrate on the remaining parts and I know that it will take long time because I run also other lighter project as building new depron jets.

The step you can see o, the pictures are only the first vaccum step concerning the film to isolate the master from the glass fiber and resin. the second step will be to cover with glass fiber and resin and cover that with a second stretching film and apply again vaccum on it to plaster the glass fiber on the master body shape and eliminate all the excessive amount of resin. After on night of polymerization we will only have to blow air under the film by reversing the pump and only to get the molded glass airframe with a good finish surface. This will be done for the upper and under parts which will be assembled following the reference line. some plywood section will be inserted at the strategic location in the airframe, and wings, fins (upper and under for the SU-27), tailerons will be added some in balsa (tailerons) and the reamaing in depron as for wings too from the same building technique as my dépron mig-29.
we didn't have the occasion to mold the SU-27 upper the least saturday because rear upper engine nacelles and rear part of the fuselage, behind the canopy had the tendency to crush. I have to fill them with more PU foam.

No problem i will keep you posted.

Regards of the team " les oufs du mig" understand "the mig 29 freak team" as said Eric. A team decided to have success in this story!!!
May 03, 2005, 06:34 AM
DBa
DBa
French style flyin
DBa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fulcrum
The step you can see o, the pictures are only the first vaccum step concerning the film to isolate the master from the glass fiber and resin. the second step will be to cover with glass fiber and resin and cover that with a second stretching film and apply again vaccum on it to plaster the glass fiber on the master body shape and eliminate all the excessive amount of resin. After on night of polymerization we will only have to blow air under the film by reversing the pump and only to get the molded glass airframe with a good finish surface. This will be done for the upper and under parts which will be assembled following the reference line. some plywood section will be inserted at the strategic location in the airframe, and wings, fins (upper and under for the SU-27), tailerons will be added some in balsa (tailerons) and the reamaing in depron as for wings too from the same building technique as my dépron mig-29.
we didn't have the occasion to mold the SU-27 upper the least saturday because rear upper engine nacelles and rear part of the fuselage, behind the canopy had the tendency to crush. I have to fill them with more PU foam.
Really well explained but i think when pics will come u will really see the power of this new moldin way.

Regards,

DB.
May 03, 2005, 06:57 AM
mig-29 freak
Fulcrum's Avatar
Thread OP
Right David ;-)

See you at mid May!!! to continue the story with a reinforced Tom's SU-27 fuselage!!

Bye
May 03, 2005, 07:07 AM
PIV
PIV
Registered User
PIV's Avatar
Very cool guys. I love the syringe vacuum guage and combined switch!
May 03, 2005, 07:16 AM
Registered User
Ralph A. D'Amelio's Avatar
Wow!
May 04, 2005, 02:12 AM
DBa
DBa
French style flyin
DBa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PIV
Very cool guys. I love the syringe vacuum guage and combined switch!
LoL an other thing of my design .

It's workin well if u got the right size of syringe (i think more of 60 ml), and springs and if u don't forget to put a lil amount of grease in it.

Regards,

DB.
May 04, 2005, 07:21 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
If anyone is looking for a small poor mans pump, just to go to the Autro store and get a hand brake bleeder. its a little sqeeze type pump with a built in release valve. Good for doing small parts and dirt cheap.


Barry
May 17, 2005, 05:50 AM
mig-29 freak
Fulcrum's Avatar
Thread OP
Hi,

The story is running.

I will post this week some new pictures of vaccum molding assay. The master templater was the upper fuselage part of the Tom's reinforced SU-27. Unfortunately our compressor warmed up to much and stopped and more confusing refused to restart while glass fiber was in place. It's pity because it would have probably been not so bad. Whatever we learned something from that failure and it would be the occasion at the next time to improve some aspect of the technique. Probably we also would benefit of an electronic vaccum controler, made by Eric, avoiding the warm up of the NEW compressor!!!!
We understood from that experience that in its shape Tom's SU-27 upper part fuselage is difficult to mold by this way, but we really hope to improve our know-how to do it. If we can mold the SU-27 fuselage as Tom's sent it, it will be easy to mold the mig-29 master really more simple in its shape at the rear because there is no recess angles, all is straight from the leading edge at the winng root until the rear beam tip, and taking lesson from that failed session we plane to add rear beam on the molded glass fiber fuselage and not mold it as a linked part of the fuselage, idem for exhaust nozzles and the nose cone.

JLuc
So we are sorry to not bring some interesting news for you on our project, but don't worry we are working to get success!!
May 17, 2005, 07:06 AM
DBa
DBa
French style flyin
DBa's Avatar
pics, pics, pics .....

DB.


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