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Build Log
Guillow's 504 Supermarine Spitfire Mk-1 RC conversion
Here goes attempt #2! My first one crashed and burned, lol. It was a learning experience building the Messerschmidt kit.
I tried using my electronics from an old 250 hell. Turns out it was probably too heavy and the wrong size electronics for sure. I think my prop was too big as well. Hand toss over high grass the model would bank hard left and nose dive. After a few attempts it accrued some damage. Back to the drawing board with that one. More on that later. I come from a heli background and am looking to get back into the hobby after stepping away for a few years. I came across these Guillow's kits at my LHS and for some reason have always liked the miniature rc aircrafts and apparently like a challenge as well. The Messerschmidt came in at a whopping 103g rtf. My goal was to cut weight and use micro rc for the Spit. Here's a breakdown of my build: (Model set up for T/E/A - bank and yank) 504 Spitfire kit UMX E-flight 180BL 3000k brushless motor 6 in 1 AS3X Rx BL-ESC EFLU4864 (need help turning off the gyro or if I can program it) E-flight 2S 200 mah lipo I tried to keep the weight down and still decided to sheet the bottom of the wing surface for strength and durability. My auw is 79g (including 2S 200 mah lipo. I still think it's a bit heavy but the wing surface appears way bigger than the Messerschmidt. I'm still looking for support on how to program the 6 in 1 UMX Rx. I picked it up off amazon and I believe it was originally for the UMX F4F Wildcat plane and the AS3X with two linear servos are set up for E & R. I am using the micro board for E & A and the gyros aren't behaving properly. The elevator works but the servo linked to my ailerons thinks it's a rudder and wants to control or correct the plane. I'm also not excited on how the ailerons are working. I feel like they are binding a bit. Maybe because of the curved wing? The aileron setup on my Messerschmidt worked much better. I'll try and add a few more build pics if interested. For some reason they are not compatible for the upload. I'd like to figure out how to either program the Rx or shut it off and fly without any assistance. Once I figure that out I'll be able to maiden the Spit. ImagesView all Images in thread
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Last edited by Bunyan; Jul 12, 2020 at 10:48 AM.
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Your aileron binding might not be due to the bellcrank mechanism, but rather due to the angle between the torque rod and the aileron hinge line.
Probably too late now to fix it, but it would probably have been better to have the torque rod parallel with the aileron hinge line (thus requiring the bellcrank to be located further aft as the torque rod would have been closer to the trailing edge at the root). You might also have had to change the aileron hinge line orientation (wider aileron near the root, narrower at the tip) so that the extension of that hinge line that the torque rod should follow would keep the torque rod away from the trailing edge at the root (sorry, kind of a convoluted description). Something to keep in mind for the next build. Tim |
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Stiff hinges will contribute to the problem. You might want to disconnect the bellcrank and manually move the ailerons to there maximum deflection several dozens of times to try and loosen the hinges. I have never liked CA hinges for that reason. On a plane of that size I wouldn't even place a hing on the inboard side (just use the torque rod as a hinge), and only one hinge on outboard end (I prefer a figure eight threaded hinge, but that's not a recommendation, just a personal preference).
You could try cutting the inboard hinge, leaving only the outboard one? Edit - I take that recommendation back, having the torque rod at an angle to the hinge line means you might need that inboard hinge to get the aileron to rotate properly. Tim |
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Quote:
However, I’m sure you’re onto something since my “kids” (for him for me) G-Park flyer is featherlight and can withstand quite a bit of abuse. I feel the Guillow conversions have slightly larger motors and much larger batteries. I guess one could always try and step it down in power with a lighter model. |
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The Maiden Flight
Well...she flies...sort of.
I had my boy try and take some video with my iPhone. He’s working on it ok. ;-) I’ll post some pics of the short flight since I don’t have enough footage to upload for a video. The Spit was sort of in and out of the viewfinder. Bottom line I think she would be a great flyer but I have my suspicions the AS3X kicked in and tried to autocorrect the rudder, which is actually my aileron. Wisdom would have me do more research and figure out how to turn that darn AS3X assist mode off but I was a bit too eager to get this bird in the air. Plus, you only get wisdom from bad decisions, right? Anyways, she tracked pretty straight out of my hand at half throttle and started to lean or yaw left AS3X kicked in thinking the rudder was pushing the bird to the left and pushed her hard right into a stall. I was able to pull her up before impact but not completely control her. Sort of did another up and down and banked hard right into the tall grass about 100 yards from me. I did work on the ailerons a bit and got them to travel much further without binding (see hack-job pic of the aileron). I also wonder if the aileron and or elevator locked up on me as well. The ailerons and elevator were both fully extended when I got to the model. Almost like they were frozen. Only damage was my ego and a lose motor mount. She might become a wall hanger and on to the next conversion using proper electronics. ImagesView all Images in thread
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Nice conversion!
Did you verify the AS3X control deflections were going in the correct direction? First time I used one I had the gyros reversed and it made for a very interesting flight that luckily didn't end with a rebuild.... Turning AS3X off or modifying settings will require the E-flite dongle and software. Looks too good to spend its days hanging from the ceiling... You went this far, might as well fly the thing! |
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I’m determined to get these little guys up in the air. You are correct, the ailerons were still on the rudder gyro setting. I should have known better to try it but was counting on the yaw axis not to counteract as much. Either way, lesson learned and dongle has been ordered along with a long throw servo which will replace the brick servo which will be set up for rudder. Do you think the cut down ailerons have enough surface to bank the plane now? The only damage to the plane on the maiden was the motor mount. I finally gave up on trying to work thru the tiny battery hole so I cut the top off. This will make working on it much easier from here on out. Still trying to keep the weight down. I’m amazed at how light some of you get your builds to be. |
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Ailerons look ok. They will be a bit sluggish, so try to get as much throw as you can. You can always cut the travel back on the Tx.
I like to make the wing removeable and attached with pins at the front and magnets at the back. Makes a huge hatch and you don't have to cut up the fuselage leaving a hatch parting line. Glenn |
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I agree with that as well. That’s how I built up the Messerschmitt. I tried building the guts using 250 Heli size electronics. Turns out it was a bit too heavy. I have my suspicions that the motor or prop was too big for the little bird. The plain would bank hard left on lunch and just nose dive into the dirt.
CG was spot on front to back but was leaning a bit left. I think there was too much torque from the blade (5x5E). |
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How much did your 109 end up weighing?
I scratch built a 16" 109 (not a Guillows kit, but about the same size, mine was 16" wingspan). It's AUW with a 150mah 1S battery was 38 grams. It flew very nicely (loops, rolls, inverted flight). The equipment was: Racerstar 1104 motor 1 gm 1S ESC 1.5 gm Rx 2 HK 5320S servos 150 mah 1S battery Building light has its advantages. Tim |
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You Sir have some mad skills! Beautiful 109. There’s something to be said about building light and using ultralight components.
My BF109 was a hefty 103g RTF with a 2S 240mah The motor I used was a no name BL 1200k, I picked up for a micro SCX 1/24 crawler conversion I didn’t use. What Tx do you use and where do you source those tiny electronics? I couldn’t find anything that small. I don’t believe Spektrum makes a Rx that small do they? I have another FW190 kit sitting in front of me that I want to build ultra light. Goal is 60g with a 2S and a Spektrum UMX brick. |
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That photo is a work of art in itself. Wonderfully evocative of the hobby.
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DSM2 Rx choices: 1.5gms with 1mm servo connectors: http://www.banggood.com/2_4G-4CH-Mic...r_warehouse=CN There are even small ones if you want to solder components to the Rx rather than use connectors: 0.3 gm Rx: http://www.banggood.com/DasMikro-DSM...r_warehouse=CN 1S ESCs: 0.5 gm (1 gm with connetors): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32967...archweb201603_ Servo: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/hk-5320-...en_us_products 4000KV 1104 brushless motor: http://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-11...r_warehouse=CN In the under 20" WWII fighter category I much prefer to go 1S and very light (under 50gms), rather than 2S and heavy, but that is just my preference. Rx bricks have there place, but I also prefer separate components. Here's a pic of my 16" FW190 (before I made a canopy for it), it also ended up in the mid 30gm range . Tim |
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