If the wing wasn't stalled, why didn't the plane react to the elevator input?

It did. The input of full up elevator tightened the spiral. Take any plane up high enough and try it yourself. Bank the plane into a turn and before you release the aileron add full up elevator. The results will be the same every time.

Scott

If the plane was still flying and it was just a graveyard spiral it would have rolled have increased the rate of descent, and airspeed, and roll rate would have increased with the speed. In a spin the rate of descent is relatively stable as is the spin rate. The latter is what we were seeing.

Tip stall. I little too much elevator tightens the bank to the point where the wing stalls. Hard to catch with a big heavy aircraft and not that much height. Big scale AT6's are also known to bite this way. With enough height you can catch it , nose down to build speed, neutralise ailerons, slow pull out. This looks like a big heavy plane though, need to fly the turns flatter with more rudder etc.

Watch it as many times as it takes. The aircraft never stalled. The pilot pulled it into a spiral and flew it right into the ground.


Scott

In knife edge, is a wing stalled ?

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Originally Posted by eflightray

In knife edge, is a wing stalled ?

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No but it's not really generating any lift either. What I saw was the turn was too tight for the airplane and it stalled. Contributing factors would be high wing loading, too forward CG, too much elevator throw or poorly designed wing. On an airplane like that it's important to design the wing so the inboard section stalls first. This can be accomplished by a different airfoil at the tip, larger LE radius st the tip or washout.

I don’t know about all the above but I do know it would’ve depressed the crap out of me

Ken

I have done the same with a small Spitfire on the final turn.

Slightly slow in the turn which would have been fine if I left it like it but I pulled a bit of up elevator to slightly tighten the turn, result was what happened in this video just much lower down.

Pulling G in a turn increases the weight of an aircraft which in turn raises the stall speed of the wing, and the wing panel on the inside of the turn is almost always the first to drop as it is running slightly slower than the outer panel.

If you watch the previous turn, it looks like the plane is pretty close to the stall there too.

I am known for building light and flying my machines in this sort of flight envelope ( slowly and close to the stall) so it does look familiar to me.

Definitely doesnt look like an accelerated stall as it appears it was carrying sufficient energy the turn. But then it suddenly snapped. Mechanical failure if you ask me. Could an elevator servo have frozen at full up deflection?

Originally Posted by Pylonracr

It did. The input of full up elevator tightened the spiral. Take any plane up high enough and try it yourself. Bank the plane into a turn and before you release the aileron add full up elevator. The results will be the same every time.

Yes and the result is called "stall"
Stall is a function of AoA and can happen on any speed.
If you bank the plane in a turn then the AoA of the inner wing is higher than the outer wing. When you increase the AoA in this situation to much with the elevator then the inner wing stalled and lost all the lift while the outer wing still generate lift. The result is a stable spin. In aerobatic flight this effect is used to make snap rolls.
And the recovery is elevator neutral, aileron neutral and full opposite rudder.
Why not opposite aileron? Using aileron increase the AoA of the inner wing and decrease the AoA of the outer wing and can increase the spin.
Of course it is possible that elevator neutral alone works with aileron but it depends on many factors like how much is the AoA from the stall limit, how much is the AoA decrease from the neutral elevator and how much increase the aileron input the AoA. And in many cases you have not much time for errors.

To me it looks like something shifted in the plane and moved the CG aft, because towards the end of the flight it looks like it got exceptionally pitch-sensitive. Right before it stalled and spun (it did stall, and it never recovered from the stall), and then no matter how much recovery he gave it any up-elevator just tightened the spin.

Looks like it went from a good CG to a tail-heavy CG during the flight. Could've been anything from a battery shifting aft to the pilot achieving CG with fuel, and with reduced fuel the CG shifted aft. Which is why you always balance the plane with no fuel in the tank.

Doubtful, being a gasoline engine the tank was most likely on the CG. One thing I missed the first time Inwatched the video was the cloud cover. As a sailplane pilot I have experienced very powerful thermals in this type of cloud cover but also equally powerful sink. A heavily loaded airplane flying into sink maybe

I don't know which Dauntless this is, but if it's the VQ Dauntless (Big, gas..) then the tank and batteries for the ignition and radio are all forward of the CG.

Originally Posted by JimboPilotFL

Downwind turn got your airspeed too low and it spun in. That is what I saw. Beautiful plane btw.

Downwind turn.??.?.. So If the aircraft’s indicated (calibrated/true) airspeed is 15 knots above the AFM published stall speed at a given weight while flying directly into a 20 knot relative wind, that aircraft will not stall?? But if it is flying within the same relative 20 knot wind from the opposite direction it will? Really? Considering the wind velocity is measured relative to the ground, can you explain how that works? (Especially given that the “downwind turn equates to a higher ground speed as the turn is initiated”). So, how does the airplane stall in a “downwind” turn versus the “upwind” turn, considering wind velocity is relative to the earth’s surface (at least as a reference point)...... and not measured in reference to an aircrafts position relative to the air mass it is operating in, irregardless of the direction or velocity of that air mass. p

By the way, it appears that it might have been an “accelerated stall”, which cares nothing about downwind, crosswind, or upwind turns....