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Jun 25, 2020, 10:26 AM
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Nietzsche's Avatar
I remember refueling this plane, will never forget it. It has a single point connection right behind the right main gear but the oddity is it has ???? ~7 actual fuel tanks located in the wings & fuselage. The plumbing in between the tanks must have been 1/2" because it takes on fuel slow. You could fill you car 10x as fast. They pilot said this was an issue in order to get the range they needed in the design phase they has to move everything around & then of course the Cg became an issue. The result is an incredibly complicated fuel system with various cross feeds & header type tanks. It requires the assistance of the pilot because there's no gauges on the fuel panel only valve switches with barber poles talk back. They're all loud but I don't recall it being any louder than a Beech Starship.... distinctive though.
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Jun 25, 2020, 01:12 PM
nsr500v
Thread OP

Starship put out to pasture


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzsche
I remember refueling this plane, will never forget it. It has a single point connection right behind the right main gear but the oddity is it has ???? ~7 actual fuel tanks located in the wings & fuselage. The plumbing in between the tanks must have been 1/2" because it takes on fuel slow. You could fill you car 10x as fast. They pilot said this was an issue in order to get the range they needed in the design phase they has to move everything around & then of course the Cg became an issue. The result is an incredibly complicated fuel system with various cross feeds & header type tanks. It requires the assistance of the pilot because there's no gauges on the fuel panel only valve switches with barber poles talk back. They're all loud but I don't recall it being any louder than a Beech Starship.... distinctive though.
The Starship wasn't as versatile as this plane and lost out to the niche I heard or read. use to see them at Van Nuys California in the late 90s frequently.
Jun 26, 2020, 07:58 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jh320
Hi All,

I designed this Avanti, I am also keen to add in some retracts and flaps, I first wanted to see if the build concept worked before I added them in.

There is a lot of interest in the aircraft though so I will order some retracts see what I can come up with.

I'll send out any updated .STL's with flaps and retracts etc, to those who have already bought the experimental version from www.rc3dprint.com.

Happy Flying!

Jon
Jon,

Wonderful project. I built one of the old simprop version back in 2015 with retracts. It flew great. I think I may just have to dive in with my Prusa!
Jun 26, 2020, 09:41 PM
3d and EDF, some scale
MustangAce17's Avatar
I would love one of these, I had a Simprop with retracts but pulled them out and lightened it up, flew extremely well until a plane was hovering in front of me as I was doing a pass and it got too slow and smacked the ground.

Can't wait to see this fly!!
Jun 27, 2020, 12:35 PM
Registered User
This looks sexy but since planes like these are designed for cruise efficiency they usually don't fly well for RC unless you deviate a lot from scale.
Jun 27, 2020, 02:11 PM
nsr500v
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfisherman
This looks sexy but since planes like these are designed for cruise efficiency they usually don't fly well for RC unless you deviate a lot from scale.
Only one way to find out , a rev b version wings with flaps is coming also .
Jun 27, 2020, 03:49 PM
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tspeer's Avatar
The pictures look like it's printed in PLA. Are there plans to adapt it for LW-PLA?
Jun 27, 2020, 04:00 PM
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mike_o's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsr500v
Only one way to find out , a rev b version wings with flaps is coming also .
EDIT: I just realized that there is an aft horizontal stabilizer with an elevator in T tail configuration. So disregard below

Flaps would only make sense on a canard plane, if you have a huge amount of elevator. Any sane canard designer will make sure that the canard weight load per area unit is significantly higher than the main wing's load to ensure canard wing stall to occur much earlier than main wing stall. Hence the canard will always stall first, and lowering the stall speed of the main wings by flaps is of no help.

I believe that some of the Concord-class jets overcame that issue (and others) by swinging canards.
Last edited by mike_o; Jul 02, 2020 at 03:48 PM.
Jun 27, 2020, 06:57 PM
nsr500v
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by tspeer
The pictures look like it's printed in PLA. Are there plans to adapt it for LW-PLA?
Mine is standard pla . will do a lw-pla to compare weights , how's the staggerwing project going
Jun 27, 2020, 07:44 PM
Registered User
tspeer's Avatar
I am almost ready to put the Staggerwing on its own legs. Mainly have RC installation to go.

Just printing in LW-PLA is interesting, but a design that was intended for LW-PLA would:
- minimize the number of retractions and print mostly in spiral/vase mode
- use thicker walls (two layers for 0.8 mm work well for me)
- include carbon reinforcement to provide stiffness
Jun 27, 2020, 10:49 PM
nsr500v
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by tspeer
I am almost ready to put the Staggerwing on its own legs. Mainly have RC installation to go.

Just printing in LW-PLA is interesting, but a design that was intended for LW-PLA would:
- minimize the number of retractions and print mostly in spiral/vase mode
- use thicker walls (two layers for 0.8 mm work well for me)
- include carbon reinforcement to provide stiffness
Were do you buy lw pla
Jun 28, 2020, 12:55 PM
Registered User
tspeer's Avatar
I bought it directly from colorFabb.
Jun 28, 2020, 02:23 PM
Registered User

Keep the feedback coming1


Hi All,

Some interesting points brought up here.

--

I have thought about using LW-PLA - I currently have roll under my printer. The problem for me is that it is quite expensive and not that easy to come by.

That being said, the design of the Piaggio here is purposefully simple, which gives quite a bit of control over to the Slicer. In fact when I printed the prototype I printed the middle of the fuselage as one long 300mm section in vase mode. It was all kinds of floppy until it was glued to the rigid pieces either side, but it printed really fast and light! What I'm saying is, I think you could printed many parts of the Avanti in LW-PLA without any major redesign, just by changing slicer settings.

To be fully LW-PLA I agree would require changes, a carbon spar for sure. The weight my printed version with normal PLA was around 1000g.

--

I agree that aircraft like this are designed for the cruise. I have made a few adjustments away from scale to hopefully provide a better RC experience. The main wing is larger, as is the fwd wing. The horizontal stabiliser is also slightly redesigned. For me though I just want to fly cool shaped planes

--

My plan has always been to release the plane before it was fully cooked. I have designed a fixed landing gear for the aircraft today which I plan to get out to those who have downloaded it already this week. I will push on with a version with flaps aswell. Mike-o is correct about having flaps only on the main wing. The fwd wing on the Avanti has a higher angle of incidence and should stall before the main wing, which is why the real Avanti has flaps on the fwd wing aswell.

Happy Flying!
Jun 29, 2020, 04:23 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_o
Flaps would only make sense on a canard plane, if you have a huge amount of elevator. Any sane canard designer will make sure that the canard weight load per area unit is significantly higher than the main wing's load to ensure canard wing stall to occur much earlier than main wing stall. Hence the canard will always stall first, and lowering the stall speed of the main wings by flaps is of no help.

I believe that some of the Concord-class jets overcame that issue (and others) by swinging canards.
The Avanti is not actually a canard. It is a three surface aircraft. In the real thing, the front surface is not used for pitch, but as part of the flap system. The flaps on the forward surface are mixed to automatically deploy with the main wing flaps. This unloads the tailplane when all the flaps are deployed.

Not sure we can take much advantage of this feature with a smallish RC model, but will be fun to experiment. I do plan on adding an elevator to the rear surface of my Simprop Avanti when I get around to it and am going to try to use the canard as more of a landing flap than a pitch surface. Simprop simplified things and did the model as a simple canard.
Jun 29, 2020, 04:26 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfisherman
This looks sexy but since planes like these are designed for cruise efficiency they usually don't fly well for RC unless you deviate a lot from scale.
Not automatically true. Larger models of this sort need minimal deviation from scale. Keep small models of this sort light and they also need less deviation from scale.


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