Originally Posted by flyerjohn

Well I needn't have worried. First attempt, on manual, was a feeble level throw and I was late getting on the elevator so it went into the comfy tall grass. No damage.
Second throw I collected my wits threw it up at a 45 degree angle, about half throttle and then got on the elevator and away she went. I think throwing it up at a 45 is a good idea. It's such a light plane it's easy to chuck skyward.
I landed it and adjusted trim for more up elevator but failed to see any movement of the elevator when trim was initiated. Not sure what that is about. So I manually added some up elevator and then she flew very nice and level.seeing is how I am running fairly heavy with a nose heavy CG it makes sense.
So I have proven that a 342 gram plane flies just fine it had a good glide despite the higher weight with the 1300 milliamp 3s. I was running the three blade prop.
It was with some trepidation that I threw her into stabilize mode, but she hardly changed attitude and flew nice and level and calm. She really flew beautifully and seemed like a small version of my Phoenix 1600 glider. I'm sorry, call me old and slow but I like these stability modes.
So to summarize it was a complete success I am very happy with this plane.

That's impressive news that it was able to do so well with that weight.
I had a short maiden yesterday with mine yesterday.
I started with the 3500 ZoHD lion and went a little forward on the CG.
I had to add a decent amount of elv trim for the pack and I just did a short flight in manual mode via los and then fpv.
My guess would be I was 3mm in front of the factory CG with that weight in it simply because it was a chore to get that pack in the plane with the factory marked cg.

It was however very windy and I am glade I did some glide tests in a area I have that is basically a bowl so the wind is up higher.
I noticed that it does like it's higher speed with the weight of the 2s 3500 pack but it still has one heck of a glide ratio.

Today I tried a different approach though and I did some testing to really see what role the weight was playing with the flight characteristics of the plane as far as the speed goes.

I wrote down my elevator trim settings for the zohd lion pack and reset it to full level trim.
Note, that I believe that when you set the trim in manual mode it helps to plug the kopilot controller back in and then hold down the set button for 4 sec while in stab mode to let it match your manual trim. Seems to be what it does?

After that I put in a old Venom 2s 1320mah pack that weighs in at 54grams.
I then balanced it on the factory marked CG.
I went out and did a glide test in my smaller back yard and it was like a completely different plane!
I was able to fly her at darn near a slow flyer speed!

While I had it flying really nice after some work with the 3500 lion, this was a much different beast at such a lighter weight on the factory cg.

I am now going to try some even lighter packs and just see if it makes even more of a change.
The ability it showed me today with the less weight and that change enabling it to fly so much slower in a small yard has me intrigued!
It would be nice to be able to slow fly my smaller backyard with los and fpv on evenings when I don't have much time.
What can I say I'm getting older and enjoy slower relaxing speeds. LOL

I came here tonight and looked through this thread some more and I noticed some of you guys adding weight to the tail and staying on the factory CG.
I may try that also now, as my guess is that as good as it flew with the cg up some, that it would fly even better with using the factory CG and balancing it that way.
I ordered a couple 650mah packs just now to see how that does for flying in a tight area.

I still haven't tried the stabilizer mode yet or the auto launch but I am looking forward to giving it a try very soon this week.

Regardless, I am very happy with the plane so far. To be honest I am in love with this thing!

It seems to have a wide range of abilities and it's lifespan on the market is just getting started.
I look forward to seeing in what all areas it can really succeed at.

Hey guys
I made this mount for full size 36x36 FC‘s
It fits just nice after removing just a little bit of material.
Mounting my 405-CTR upside down in the lower bay makes a super clean install.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4568941

OK, I searched the whole thread and did not see my issue mentioned so here we go. Sorry if it was addressed elsewhere.

The drift has what looks like solid but thinned foam for the inner halves then five slots cut on the outer end. I'm getting ready to maiden and noticed that when they activate the whole control surface clearly twists, with the inner part (where the conrol horn is naturally) deflecting much more than the outer edge. Um, that seems odd to me. Happens to both sides in both directions.

Have others seen this? Is it a concern?

Originally Posted by billms

OK, I searched the whole thread and did not see my issue mentioned so here we go. Sorry if it was addressed elsewhere.

The drift has what looks like solid but thinned foam for the inner halves then five slots cut on the outer end. I'm getting ready to maiden and noticed that when they activate the whole control surface clearly twists, with the inner part (where the conrol horn is naturally) deflecting much more than the outer edge. Um, that seems odd to me. Happens to both sides in both directions.

Have others seen this? Is it a concern?

Looks like there was a second revision to counter that somewhat, that used a single long carbon brace on the aileron instead of the original 2 short ones. That said, it's not really a problem so long as both wings move an even amount.

In an ideal situation, they would move at a constant angle along the whole aileron. But considering how thin the wing is, and how light they are trying to make the plane, the twist is basically inevitable. Aerodynamically, it's kind of a disaster, but functionally, it's not really a problem.

Well today nearly turned into a disaster as far as a maiden is concerned. Have the CG about 5mm forward of the mark. Test glide into tall grass was fine, in fact I'd say a little nose heavy, I fly a lot of gliders. Power on, not enough and recovered in time for a safe landing. Bit more power on and all hell is let loose, behaving as though there is a brick on the tail. Just recover let's try stabilise mode, nuts again swooping and trying to turn her was a no no as in she just didn't want to turn and that was with full left stick, back to manual mode, recover and managed to land her. What the hell is going on! I have a Nano Talon Evo with the same set up and behaves faultless. Is the thrust line wrong or am I just a crappy pilot?

Tony

It has been my experience with this plane that throttle is not your friend. I launch mine at just under 1/2 throttle. Use full throttle only for pretty much vertical climb only. The thrust angle of the motor and the sensitivity to CG do not work well together.

Same when switching from stabilized to manual while in flight. Better to do it with little to no throttle to avoid the thrust from the prop push the nose down.

Just my 2 Cent

"It has been my experience with this plane that throttle is not your friend. I launch mine at just under 1/2 throttle. Use full throttle only for pretty much vertical climb only. The thrust angle of the motor and the sensitivity to CG do not work well together"

I think you're right on this one. Now I've had time to recover and think a little here's my thoughts; In manual mode I have 50% throws on aileron and elevator, I might increase the aileron throw for a little more authority as it seemed a little lacking. Considering it was such a short flight. Really struggled to gain some form of control when in stabilize mode. If memory serves I had this issue a little, but not as much as today, when I set up my Nano Talon. I think I need to turn down the gain on both surfaces and hope this helps as full over hardly registered, I'm talking probably a 75 yard turn here. Manual mode is pleasant flying in it's own right but I could have this minus the Kopilot. The throttle is confusing me a bit, as stated at the top, turn her up and she goes vertical. I was on 3S 850Mah and 3 bladed prop. My first thoughts are put her on a curve but I don't think I can in Kopilot? Back off the down thrust on the motor - has anyone done this? Go for 2S and 2 bladed prop.

Bit annoyed and a bit let down to be honest. I'm a fastidious builder and not that "Crappy" as a pilot. I don't mind a challenge but I was very lucky today as it could have ended very differently.

Tony

Originally Posted by tctele

"It has been my experience with this plane that throttle is not your friend. I launch mine at just under 1/2 throttle. Use full throttle only for pretty much vertical climb only. The thrust angle of the motor and the sensitivity to CG do not work well together"

I think you're right on this one. Now I've had time to recover and think a little here's my thoughts; In manual mode I have 50% throws on aileron and elevator, I might increase the aileron throw for a little more authority as it seemed a little lacking. Considering it was such a short flight. Really struggled to gain some form of control when in stabilize mode. If memory serves I had this issue a little, but not as much as today, when I set up my Nano Talon. I think I need to turn down the gain on both surfaces and hope this helps as full over hardly registered, I'm talking probably a 75 yard turn here. Manual mode is pleasant flying in it's own right but I could have this minus the Kopilot. The throttle is confusing me a bit, as stated at the top, turn her up and she goes vertical. I was on 3S 850Mah and 3 bladed prop. My first thoughts are put her on a curve but I don't think I can in Kopilot? Back off the down thrust on the motor - has anyone done this? Go for 2S and 2 bladed prop.

Bit annoyed and a bit let down to be honest. I'm a fastidious builder and not that "Crappy" as a pilot. I don't mind a challenge but I was very lucky today as it could have ended very differently.

Tony

To me, this sounds like something is wrong. Drift pitches up most certainly as thrust is applied, but I just tried punching mine from 1/4 throttle to full throttle on 3s in manual mode and the pitch up was bad, but most certainly not pitching the nose straight into the sky. Maybe this is because mine weights in at just under 400 grams, but I would be very suspicious of something not working properly if applying full throttle causes the nose to actually pitch up that far.


Also, my guess is that Kopilot does not like the throws being limited in stabilize mode. In iNav when you limit the throws and try to fly in a stabilized mode, it feels as if you have no control of the plane and its just being pushed around in the wind, so this would be my assumption with Kopilot

Note: I was typing this as FPVGAWD posted.. not replying to your post bro...

There is no way I would fly this on 3s. Way too much power for it. Maybe if it was REALLY heavy would I put a 3s on it.

One thing I found that helped me with the stabilized mode to manual transition was mechanically changing the trim instead of using the radio trim. It's not going to get it perfect, but it helps use less radio trim and drastic changes from stab to manual....

My last flight last weekend was where I really got a feel for all of this. Was even doing very low flight through some natural obstacles.. (trees)

Get a handle on the throttle and you will easily work out the rest of it.

Good luck!
Rob

Just to answer the last two posts. On 3S she weighs 263 grams. I have no trims on the transmitter ie all control surfaces are at zero mechanically - I've been doing this as the norm now for a number of years. I haven't as yet limited the throws in stabilize mode but I had very little control until I switched to manual mode, but I take your point. I'm quite experienced with Kopilot as this is the 3rd model I have it in, Nano Talon, an OD and the Drift. I dread to think what could have happened in RTH mode. I need to go back to my F/F trimming days and do baby steps. The thrust angle appears the same as every photo I can find and there's nothing loose or out of line on the pod. I am very tempted to reduce the thrust angle though as from zero to hero should be a smooth curve. I'll be back! Ta for the responses.

PS just to clarify having 50% throws in manual mode, as I said in my earlier post, doesn't affect stabilize mode in Kopilot

Originally Posted by billms

OK, I searched the whole thread and did not see my issue mentioned so here we go. Sorry if it was addressed elsewhere.

The drift has what looks like solid but thinned foam for the inner halves then five slots cut on the outer end. I'm getting ready to maiden and noticed that when they activate the whole control surface clearly twists, with the inner part (where the conrol horn is naturally) deflecting much more than the outer edge. Um, that seems odd to me. Happens to both sides in both directions.

Have others seen this? Is it a concern?

I noticed that also. I cut the smooshed dashes to open up the elevator there and reduce the twist a little. But I don't think it really matters if the el twists a little. Birds wings twist all over the place and they fly just fine.

Originally Posted by tctele

Well today nearly turned into a disaster as far as a maiden is concerned. Have the CG about 5mm forward of the mark. Test glide into tall grass was fine, in fact I'd say a little nose heavy, I fly a lot of gliders. Power on, not enough and recovered in time for a safe landing. Bit more power on and all hell is let loose, behaving as though there is a brick on the tail. Just recover let's try stabilise mode, nuts again swooping and trying to turn her was a no no as in she just didn't want to turn and that was with full left stick, back to manual mode, recover and managed to land her. What the hell is going on! I have a Nano Talon Evo with the same set up and behaves faultless. Is the thrust line wrong or am I just a crappy pilot?

Tony

I have 50% expo for manual. FWIW I have my elevator mechanically up about 1 mm....with the CG 5 mm forward. I notice no change in pitch when changing from stabilize to manual and back. Mine flew well and I enjoyed stabilize mode. Very mellow. But I'm also flying 80 grams heavier @ 342.

Without gyros light gliders can be a handful. I have a UMX Radian and without gyro I just could not fly it in turbulent conditons.

I did notice that in stabilize mode the turns are rather limited and gradual. I'm thinking that maybe the mechanical linkages should be adjusted for more throw so in stabilize the turns can be tighter? and then reduce rates in manual even further to compensate.

My dials on the settings board (el and ail) are at the first clockwise hashmark - which you need a microscope to see - which is as it came. I wonder if these are reduced further the turns can be tighter. The stabilizer would do less stabilizing. These stabilizers, as pointed out earlier, limit the roll angles. Since we have no rudder, roll angle is the only thing can turn this plane. On fancy ones like the ET Vector, one can choose this angle independently of other functions.

Edit: the Kopilot is made to control a rudder when turning. Without one those turns are limited. I think.

Edit 2: Counter to what I thought, as the dial goes clockwise, both the throws and the reactivity to level become less.

So, at 5:30, the motion is less but so is the leveling force and at 1:00 the throws/motion is greater but so is the leveling force. And what this means to how it flies confuses me and really should just be tested at the field.

Originally Posted by RobDog

Note: I was typing this as FPVGAWD posted.. not replying to your post bro...

There is no way I would fly this on 3s. Way too much power for it. Maybe if it was REALLY heavy would I put a 3s on it.

One thing I found that helped me with the stabilized mode to manual transition was mechanically changing the trim instead of using the radio trim. It's not going to get it perfect, but it helps use less radio trim and drastic changes from stab to manual....

My last flight last weekend was where I really got a feel for all of this. Was even doing very low flight through some natural obstacles.. (trees)

Get a handle on the throttle and you will easily work out the rest of it.

Good luck!
Rob

The plan is for the 2s lion, but only have 3s at present. I was pleasantly surprised with full throttle 3s 3 blade in stability mode. Really cool. Zipping along low over the field. Nice speed but not too much for my slow manual brain. Are you saying the 2s is nearly as fast as the 3s? I would rather go 2s if so as it's probably quieter.

Originally Posted by tctele

Well today nearly turned into a disaster as far as a maiden is concerned. Have the CG about 5mm forward of the mark. Test glide into tall grass was fine, in fact I'd say a little nose heavy, I fly a lot of gliders. Power on, not enough and recovered in time for a safe landing. Bit more power on and all hell is let loose, behaving as though there is a brick on the tail. Just recover let's try stabilise mode, nuts again swooping and trying to turn her was a no no as in she just didn't want to turn and that was with full left stick, back to manual mode, recover and managed to land her. What the hell is going on! I have a Nano Talon Evo with the same set up and behaves faultless. Is the thrust line wrong or am I just a crappy pilot?

Tony

This was very similar to my experience with the CG moved forward with a heavy pack.
While my glide test was fine with some trim while having the CG forward when I would give throttle, it almost would act as if the weight would be instantly shifting to the tail with any serious climbing angle using engine throttle.

The aircraft felt very unstable when that "appeared shift" of weight seems to happen.
First thing I did was get her down and check to see if the battery somehow moved!
That's what it had felt like but I had the pack on the Velcro and it had not moved at all.
If I was flying it level she did very well with the forward CG.
Still at any time if I went to much up in angle then BAM same thing.

This is why for testing the next day I went and tried a lighter pack.
I watch Andrew Newton on youtube all the time and out of all the videos I have watched of the Drift flying in LOS so you can see it's flight characteristics at different climb angles, his drift was just flying simply Gorgeous and flawless!

I asked him if he was using the factory CG and he replied back that Yes he was and it was ok for him.
Clearly that is the case if you watch him flying the drift! LOL

That's when I reset all my trim and went to a lighter pack just to see how the drift acted while balanced right on the factory CG.

For me it was a completely different aircraft in my testing on the factory CG with a 54g 2s 1320 lipo.
In that testing I did position the pack so that on the factory CG it was balanced but with the slightest dip of the nose.
Big difference and that appeared weight shift with nose up was gone for me.

I have not tried the drift at 3s but even on 2s the throttle seems different then most aircraft.
It has a lot of range in order to get to that instant power/thrust and I noticed that if I get to low I really have to push the throttle up in order to hit that thrust spot and gain my speed again.

That could also have to do with the C ratting of the older pack that I'm using? or maybe it is how it works on 2s in general.
It seems to have this spot in the throttle when all of a sudden the thrust gets there and it will nose up.
Still I have to say that on the factory CG with the lighter pack in manual mode it did not have that unstable characteristic on climbing as it did with the heavy pack and the cg forward.

I have also been wondering if this is a flaw in the prop that is being used as if the stock 2s prop does not produce enough thrust until it reaches a certain rpm???

I sadly don't know much about what other props to try on this engine but in theory with my limited knowledge I am guessing that a different prop could very well produce more thrust in the lower throttle rpm rang so that there is a smoother thrust transition as it increases to a faster rpm.

Has anyone here thought about that?

Hopefully I will have some time to get out again soon for some more flights!

Just got back from some flights. Winds were gusting to 12 Mph so I just flew in stab mode. It flew so well that I thought physics could be ignored and tried a downwind dive that I was late pulling out of. I was "testing the envelope" . Why do I do those things? A little bendage on the front .......easily repaired.

I was surprised how well it handled the turbulent strong breeze. I'm pretty happy with how it handles in stab mode on 3s at 342 grams.