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May 19, 2020, 10:55 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Discussion

Help! First electric build.


I am brand new to our RC electric flight. And looking for some guidance on what aircraft to build, to accommodate the equipment I finally received. Here is the list of electronics and power plant. Receiver....Spectrum AR 410, 4 channel. Planning on starting out throttle, rudder Elevator. Servos......either 3.5 g or 5 g servo. ESC 20amp. ( Waiting for 12 amp ESC If that will work?) Brushless motor 2205. 2300kv. or 1806 2280kv. Propellers.....either 5/3 6/4 or 7/3. Can anyone suggest a aircraft with a wingspan from the low 30Ē to 40Ē that could accommodate this equipment. I have included a picture of all the equipment on the scale with total weight. I donít know if Iím asking the right question, but what size wing/aircraft do I need to comfortably accommodate this equipment at the weight showing on the scale. If you canít see it itís 94 g.
I am also including some pictures of rubber FreeFlight I have built to give you a sense of my build comfort level. If these aircraft are too small, I am more than happy to build larger. In addition, I have a ultracote parklite or regular ultracote, Or I am comfortable still using tissue.
Any suggestions on this topic, would be greatly appreciated.
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May 19, 2020, 11:01 AM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
Need a better idea of what you want. If you've never flown RC, I assume you want a trainer.

But then do you want a kit, or to scratch build? Here's an EPP kit suitable for a new pilot and I believe compatible with your parts.

http://fancyfoam-com.3dcartstores.co...Kit_p_105.html
May 19, 2020, 11:07 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Yes been flying. Cub s and UMX Turbo Timber 700mm. Doing fine. If scratch building means just buying a sheet of plans and a bunch of bossa, no I donít want to do that. If scratch build means buying a kit with laser cut parts, yeah I have no problem doing that. Thank you for the fast reply.
May 19, 2020, 11:30 AM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
If you're already flying those, no need to restrict to a trainer. I don't have much history with high wing planes like you pictured, so will leave those recommendations to others.

I have this one and it's a hoot. Suitable for your stuff. Watch some of the videos.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...r-EPP-3D-Delta
http://www.wmparkflyers.com/Quasar-3D-Delta_p_205.html

It also flies around just fine as a small park flier without all the high skill techniques. Has decent moderate wind capability and will take a crash.
May 19, 2020, 12:22 PM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Thank you for the links. I really enjoy the build process particularly balsa. If you know anyone that could guide me into balsa kit choice, I would be greatly appreciative.
May 19, 2020, 12:33 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Soren, that's fine work on your rubber scale models. So building clearly won't be an issue.

Most 1806 motors these days easily make more power than the old Cox .049's. You don't say what the maximum current rating is but looking around a little most of the 1806 quad racing motors out there in this Kv range are good for anything from 12 to 15 amps even on 3S pack operation. The old Cox Black Widow is roughly the equivalent of 80 watts. So you would have lots of power to fly anything that you find plans wise that uses an .049 or less size glow engine. And likely would never need, or want early on, to use full power even with the 1806.

Will you be using a skilled instructor to help you out or is this going to be a "go it on your own" venture?

If you're going to self teach then it is a wise decision to start with RET controls.

The "why" of this is related to work load during flight training. RET gives you less to deal with on the control side of things. You've got a "turn" and you got a "pitch" control and it's easier to keep them straight. Plus you're using a design with generous dihedral which is self stabilizing to a far higher degree.

If you are going to self train yourself I'd suggest you start out with a larger, lighter and thus easier to see and slower flying design. Since you clearly have good skills with a handful of balsa sticks a great option would be any of the old timers or vintage free flight models in the 40 to 48 inch span range to use with the 1806 motor since it clearly will make a lot more power than an .049.

There is also some other of the classic 1/2A training designs too but these tend to be more in the 36" span range and unless built very carefully with light wood can be rather zippy to fly for a beginner without help. But if you don't mind using some of your lighter stock things like the Mini Mambo or Pilot Baby could be built lightly enough to fly slowly enough to give you a fighting chance at getting through your training with minimal repairs.

A great option given your building history would be some of the smaller old time "gas" free flight designs and just add rudder and elevator. Being free flight if you lose your mental connection just let go of the sticks and the model will recover. Then carry on.

Being lightly built you can go with larger size designs in the 45" range and still power them with the 1806 motor. Especially when teaching yourself too much power will get you into more trouble than it will get you out of. So although these seem large in size it is more about the weight. And it's very easy to build this size up with light electric gear to end up at under 20 oz flying weight. And the extra wing area really does a good job of slowing them down so you can keep up with the model. Here are just two great examples of this way of thinking. And built down to under 20 oz would fly great with the 1806.

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2974
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=2180

Are you familiar with Outerzone? There's more plans there than you can shake a stick at.
May 20, 2020, 04:35 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Wow! Outstanding information very kind of you to responsed. I totally agree RET for sure.
If possible I was hoping to keep it to a laser cut kit,They go together quite easily and it is pretty easy to keep everything relatively square and true. What would happen if I started with a 30 inch plus wingspan versus a 40 inch. I understand wing loading and the slow flight qualities of a nice big constant cord wing, but if I can keep my finish weight down around 8oz to 9oz with power and electronics, would there be a substantial draw back to a bit smaller aircraft to start with? Also I may use as sepectrum AR 637T receiver which incorporates SAFE Flite. On a no wind day I can fly with no digital assistance.
I have two motor options the 1806 2280kv and a 2205 with 2300kv and as I mentioned above various prop size from 5/3 6/3.5. And 7/4. Battery will be a S3. 11.1v. 300mah. I have a 12amp, 20amp and 30 amp esc.

Complete non sequitur, Iím almost done with a Dumas rearwin speedster. I know this is an RC electric form and this will be rubber powered, but I hoping to do something like this and convert to electric. At this point this one weighs in at 2.50oz. finish weight of this one with rubber will be a bit over 3oz I think. So something like this in electric I think I can keep under 8 ounces for sure.
Thank you again for your response and assistance, really appreciate it.
May 20, 2020, 09:41 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi Soren

Listed some ideas of kit mfg in your Mulligan thread. Agree with Bruce that you're not looking for a rubber ship with 80 watts of motor. If you like scale- look a the Herr kits sold by Sig. Also if you like old designs- Rob at BalsaWorkBench sells short kits- but you do have to add wood and hardware. If you want a complete kit, there aren't that many mfgs out there.

Sam
May 20, 2020, 10:10 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Bruce, forgot to answer a question you had. Yes, Everything I’m doing is solo. Closest Hobby shop to me is two hours away and I don’t know anyone in my area that flys RC ar all.
May 20, 2020, 10:22 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Sam, Yes I have heard of Herr , Great kits, built a Fairchild, 30” ws, came out great, really good flyer. They have a cub with 35” ws, I will seriously consider doing one of the Herr kits.
Thinking of downsizing engine if I’m going to be in that size, how does a park 250 sound? With 10amp esc and 2 3.5g servos. I also have a Manzano laser works Cessna 182 short kit. I think it’s a Trittle design, could be wrong on that account.
I see you are from Shelton CT. I grew up in Woodbridge.
May 20, 2020, 10:44 AM
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E-Challenged's Avatar
Can't tell what the power system and RC gear is from picture. It looks like your tastes are for small to medium sized scale designs. Take a look at Brodak/Dare "complete" model kits as sold by Brodak. Some of the designs are by Pat Tritle. Tritle scale designs are very lightly wing- loaded and similar to the models you have pictured , intended to fly slow and scale-like in calm wind conditions. You can see some of them flying on You Tube and look at "build threads" on RCG electric scale forum. I would suggest that you build Tritle designs in the 48-60-inch wingspan range as they have enough wing area to fly well with common light weight, inexpensive power and RC gear. Notice that listings in blue on Pat's website are links to his build threads on RCG.
You need help to select the proper power system and RC gear to fit the particular model. You should go to Pat Tritle's website, "Pat's Custom Models" to see the wide variety and sizes of models. Pat's designs are also sold as "short kits" by Manzano Laser Works. "Short Kit's" are basically plans, ABS molded cowls, laser cut parts sheets plus sticks. You must source wheels, accessory items, adhesives and covering materials , from online suppliers. You may need some ingenuity/help to mount motor, and locate battery and RC gear to avoid need for excessive nose ballast to correct tail-heaviness. You will also need to invest in a good balancing type lipo battery charger, power supply and proper battery packs. Get advice and help from various RC Groups forums including Scale electric and beginner forums.

http://patscustom-models.com/

https://brodak.com/electric-kits/dar...tric-kits.html
Last edited by E-Challenged; May 20, 2020 at 11:00 AM.
May 20, 2020, 11:02 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Does anyone have any opinion on the GWS motors. I know nothing about them and I’ve already invested in some brushless motors. Pro’s. Con’s
May 20, 2020, 11:13 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Hi Soren

Small world- I actually grew up in the Hamden/Wallingford region of the state. Did a postdoc at Davis back in the early 90s-did some skiing at Alpine Meadows.

In terms of GWS stuff- I think once you're over 10 watts, it's getting hard to argue with brushless unless you need noseweight. There are some deals out there on brushed ESCs though, but I tend not to trust anything other than Castle gear and they gave up on brushed ESCs years ago. GWS IPS gearboxes with the 12 mm brushed motors worked well at the 12-15 watt level and had a very wide range of prop sizes. Don't know where to get the stuff anymore though. Could be problematic with stronger brushless motors too.

Also- once you're over 10 watts- you don't need to go nuts with servos- I used to be plenty happy with Hitec HS-50s at around 6 grams/servo. It can be hard to find small, accurate servos, although for what you're flying- it's probably not necessary.

E-C's idea of Pat's website and Brodak kits is a good one- you're clearly comfortable building rubber powered style kits. The build threads should help sort stuff out- these kits are not snap together.

Sam
May 20, 2020, 11:22 AM
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E-Challenged's Avatar
GWS, years ago, supplied a popular variety of foam model assembly kits, motors, speed controls, and accessory items through various suppliers. Some GWS geared motors and propellers are still sold by Aeromicro and a few others. The few remaining GWS model kits sold on Ebay , etc are "orphan" "left overs". I found GWS geared, brushed, motors to be delicate. There is a wide variety of small inexpensive brushless motors and speed controls available from online suppliers nowadays. Many of the older model kits still show GWS brushed geared motors on the plans mounted on a 10mm wooden stick. The kit builder needs to use an adapter to mount a brushless motor, or, remove the stick-mount and build a small ply motor mount "box" with 3/32 ply and blind nuts and bolts. Brushless motors require brushless motor speed controls. Brush-type motors require brush-motor speed controls ( becoming hard to find).
May 20, 2020, 11:44 AM
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Soren wolff's Avatar
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Wow, thank you everyone for the response. It helps put my mind at rest, I’m sticking with my brushless. On the topic of kits, I do have a Manzano laser cut short kit, Cessna 182. Also considering from Parkscalemodels, a monocouoe with 36”ws. Was just sent a link to their website. I don’t know if anyone is familiar with this company that produces laser cut kits, But their kits Don’t come with plans? Is anyone familiar with this? Are they just built on a flat surface, no plan to lay out on?


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