Originally Posted by buzzard bait

I think it's just a myth that true scale WWI planes don't fly well. Ever been to Ol' Rhinebeck?

Narrow gear does cause ground loops, but making the gear wider ruins the WWI look for me, and yes, the Dr.I is top heavy. That's all on the ground, not in the air. Engines sometimes caused problems; the rotaries could be tricky. But that's irrelevant for models.

I think rotaries have gotten a bum rap. Granted, the gyroscopic precession thing could be a serious issue but they really presented some creative solutions to the engineering problems of the day. Up through 200hp they had as good a power to weight ratio as anything flying. They really weren't any more unreliable than anything else flying in the day. A lot of the problems with the engines were wartime problems. The Americans had inexperienced mechanics. The Germans couldn't get good castor oil. Petroleum engineering was an infant science at the time. The fact that any airplanes are still powered by a rotary says a lot for them.

I would agree the rotaries were cutting edge in their day. Just look at the difference in horse power they provided over the early water cooled engines the Wringhts and Curtis started out with.

I was referring to the need for the pilot to control the mixture in flight, and the gyro effect on some airplanes. Generally not a problem, but could be difficult for pilots fresh out of training. Gyro effects could be killers on climb out for the unwary. For most of them, not too bad, but with the Camel and Tommy Scout, make a mistake on climb out and it could mean a crash. Howard Hughes got pretty bashed up crashing a Tommy Scout doing what he was told not to do.

One important advantage of rotaries was being able to take off from a cold start. That played a major role in the First Pursuit Group's aerial victories on the day they began operations in April 1918. Alan Winslow and Douglas Campbell took off in their Nieuport 28's and immediately shot down two German planes, almost directly over the aerodrome. If they had been equipped with Spads they might have been strafed before the warmup was complete.

Originally Posted by buzzard bait

I was referring to the need for the pilot to control the mixture in flight, and the gyro effect on some airplanes. Generally not a problem, but could be difficult for pilots fresh out of training. Gyro effects could be killers on climb out for the unwary. For most of them, not too bad, but with the Camel and Tommy Scout, make a mistake on climb out and it could mean a crash. Howard Hughes got pretty bashed up crashing a Tommy Scout doing what he was told not to do.

Yeah, Ol' Howard put his face through more than one instrument panel. The Camel, like its namesake would happily turn around and bite you if you weren't paying attention. I've always understood that one of the things that the SE5 and the Albatros had going for them is that they were relatively friendly to low time pilots. The allies lost a lot of low time pilots because they weren't all that well trained. A hundred years on it's kind of difficult to sort fact from fiction. I really like that there are people who are building really accurate reproductions with original engines. From what I gather the planes of WWI were on one hand often more flexible and capable than they are given credit for but that as a rule they are often quite different in ways that can catch a modern pilot by surprise and I'm sure that would be the same with an inexperienced pilot back in the day. Locally we have a restored Curtiss Jenny with an OX-5 engine. I was lucky enough to see it fly before the owners decided to hang it from the ceiling of the local airport terminal. One of our local club members was lucky enough to get a ride in the Jenny. He affirmed that it was unlike any other aircraft he had ridden in.

the jenny has always been my fav plane, I have a 1/4 scale kit And some pics of a real one for details, would like to have one of those engines to put in it if it would fly it

A group of us in Ithaca NY restored a Thomas Morse Scout that had been built here. It had a 100 year-old LeRhone rotary. Two pilots from Rhinebeck flew it and had no trouble at all making several perfect flights, the plane didn't even try to ground loop. But those pilots both had a lot of experience behind rotaries. To watch it fly you wouldn't know it was any different from a modern light plane.

I have a tigermoth gee bee kit to which I set up for pull-pull on the rudder and elevator where is the best place for the small fittings, I have a 4-40 system but I know theres got to be smaller stuff out there

Originally Posted by slam555

I have a tigermoth gee bee kit to which I set up for pull-pull on the rudder and elevator where is the best place for the small fittings, I have a 4-40 system but I know theres got to be smaller stuff out there

The DuBro # 517 is a 2-56 system using15 feet of nylon coated cable, weighs in at 19 grams.

If you need still smaller the DuBro # 846 Micro Pull-Pull uses 10 feet of 10 lb. test line and comes in at 2.2 grams

Both sets come with all the hardware.

thanks that helps a lot probably go with the 517

Dear Ikura:

The PIPE Here again - as it's the TIRES (and yes, I'm an American from New England, so it IS "i" in "tires" for yours truly) that disappoint you with what the "Herbie Wheels" wire RIMS were "shod" with (in the manner of "horseshoes")...

Originally Posted by Ikura

The one thing I don't like about the wheels from Herbie is the split tyres that are butt jointed with glue. The tyres on the Proctor spoked wheels are a one piece tyre.

...I've attached a pair of Microsoft Word-archived series of JPEG scans, Parts 1 & 2, of the complete "How To Make Wheels & Tires" two-part article by the late Harry Shoaf, who did the article for the Americans' AMA magazine, Model Aviation, way back in early 1980!

The "Flex Seal" rubber-sealant line of products from the United States has a LOT of materials in their lineup usable for the "curable rubber" that Mr. Shoaf's article refers to, and these ARE orderable from the UK, as they've got an "International Orders" page link at the bottom of the link in this paragraph...for WW I aircraft tires, they DO have some of their rubber products in beige, white and gray colors for even more authenticity.

So, with the included two-part article, your own inventiveness; and something like 'Flex Seal" for the material for the rubber tires, the Herbie Wheels' rims can have much BETTER tires on there, than what they originally came with...give the text of this article a good read, and if you think you'd like to try it, give it a go!

Hope these articles can be of some help, and give you some interesting ideas...

Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE....!

Thanks for posting the articles on tyres Pipe. Very interesting stuff. I wouldn't say I was disappointed with the Herbie spoked wheels, I just preferred the ones Proctor sells for the subjects I am planning on building. I have a couple of pairs of Herbie's spoked wheels for a 1/6 scale Avro D Biplane I have part built. Because the rims are slimmer than the Proctor rims they actually look more in keeping with the antiquated Avro design.

I really like the Proctor VK kits and even though they were designed a very long time ago, they hold up well to anything manufactured since. Likewise with the Top Flite SE5a kit designed by Dave Platt. I can't think of any kits in 1/6 scale that even come close to the VK kits. Yes the rudder outline on the Fokker Dr.1 is a little off but that is a very simple fix.

You really do have to love building to tackle any of these kits but you end up with a model that is very much built with the same techniques used on the original full size aircraft. Anyway, they do it for me and I am happy to continue to support Joe at Proctor, even though it costs a small fortune in import taxes when they arrive in the UK.

thats the nice thing about this hobby, you can go anywhere and at any budget

For me it has always been about the building more than the flying. There is something magical about starting with a box of sticks and wood and coming out with a flying airplane!

Originally Posted by flyerinokc

For me it has always been about the building more than the flying. There is something magical about starting with a box of sticks and wood and coming out with a flying airplane!

....or getting to the point where you scratch your head and ask yourself why on earth did I ever start this.

A new kit really is a joy, and rummaging through all the wood, looking at the plans and other bits and bobs is really what does it for me too. Like you, I do enjoy flying very much but building something you really have your heart into is something quite special. I have also built quite a few musical instruments over the years and love the feeling I get working with wood.