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Apr 24, 2020, 11:10 AM
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Thread OP

The Hound

Hello all,

I have always liked the look of shoulder wing models like the Record Hound and last year I downloaded the plan from Outerzone and looked it over carefully. It was certainly unusual and the fuselage looked like quite an awkward build. The wings and tail looked straightforward although I would probably modify the wing section to a modern outline and incorporate a D box.

The build of a KK Super 69 intervened and I have only lately got the plans out again for another look. My hangar space is filling up and I am aware that the models are not getting all the flying time they should. So I toyed with the idea of maybe using a wing set from an existing model and grafting it onto a Record Hound style fuselage. This had pluses and minuses; the tail plane would have to be top mounted but the wing could go in as per plan. The flying surfaces could be from my 2m span Bandit and the wing though semi elliptical is V dihedral rather than polyhedral. Oh, it also looked likely that an under fin could be needed to give more area and directional stability.

The fuselage looked quite a challenge although I know from this site that somebody has built and flown a Record Hound in very short order. I kept wondering about the long fuselage and short nose and also the need to keep the fuselage torsionally stiff. In the end I decided to shorten the rear fuselage to give a TVC of around 0.5 and make some structural changes. The top and bottom profile would be pretty much the same although the nose would be lengthened for CG purposes and an electric power train used.

It will obviously not be a traditional Record Hound but a model type inspired by it, hence the name of "The Hound". I am not sure what people will make of this approach, not proper vintage, but it will keep me gently employed during these strange times as I sort out the issues one by one. If there is interest I will make further contributions and post a few working pics on the thread as I progress.

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Apr 24, 2020, 02:58 PM
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Most certainly interested!! It's always fun to watch others interpretations of great models. If you decide on doing a build log I will be subscribed.
Apr 24, 2020, 03:23 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
I built a regular Record Hound as my first ever electric powered model.

The fuselage is a touch tricky but not as bad as you might expect. The key is to build it in two major stages. First is the upside down lower portion which can be done over the top down "crutch" view. Then flip it over and add on the upper parts. Doing it that way it makes a lot more sense.

It's been more than 30 years now but I do recall that I make up some corrugated cardboard formers to use for supporting the lower keel as it was bent into place and then the diagonal strips added. Done with care this ensured that the keel was centered over the crutch despite the swoopy curves. I also made the cardboard formers in a way that they didn't trap the crutch to the building board. This let me lift off the whole lower section complete with side stringers as one piece.

My model is still around and back before Xmas I started the process of adapting it to a new brushless setup. I put this off for years due to the 3 oz of lead shot in the tail which was going to require major surgery. But in the end between the loss of the lead shot and the lighter motor and battery I'm looking forward to how it thermals with a "diet" that reduces the original 54 oz down to more like around 42 to 43 oz.

I'd add on some pictures but they are on a hard drive out of my old computer and I need to transfer them. But I'll take a few new ones hopefully showcasing the split in the lower and upper structure for you later today. Let me know if there's anything specific.

Keep in mind that the whole issue of the low mounted stab with anhedral was to make the model so it would ROG with the single nose wheel. If you're just after a V with a rounded top there's many other designs with this same feature that use "proper" landing gear. I found that taking off with the single nose and stab tip wheels is a nightmare best avoided. In the day what the guys were allowed to do is guide the model from a wing tip during the ROG. That would make this setup usable. But to just set it on the runway, step back and apply power? Well, from the couple of times I tried that all I can say is "good luck".

Now you COULD stick a two wheel gear on it. But then why go with the hatchet fish shaped extreme fuselage design?

If you're after a simpler "V" fuselage it doesn't get much simpler than the Shulman Wedgy….

There's a lot of cabin style models with a triangular lower shape either from the nose back or that transition from sloping sides to a triangular rear. I'm having a brain burp at the moment and the only one that springs to mind aside from the Wedgy is the Feather Merchant. But I know that there are at least a dozen more. And another dozen again if you like the idea of the upside down "ice cream cone" section.
Last edited by BMatthews; Apr 24, 2020 at 03:29 PM.
Apr 24, 2020, 07:20 PM
Thermals, Tom
RyanNX211's Avatar
If you're after a simpler "V" fuselage it doesn't get much simpler than the Shulman Wedgy….
Ehling Triangle
Latest blog entry: Steak and Old Timers
Apr 24, 2020, 10:32 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Two less dihedral joints? OK, you win that one...
Apr 25, 2020, 07:12 AM
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Thread OP
Ok guys, thank you for the comments.

Anyone is welcome to pitch in here with comment and pics that carry the Hound ethos forward. I have just recalled that the Scarab is also a design along these lines and the Double Diamond is a large cabin version of the genre.

I shall post comment and pictures on here as I go. Just one rather obvious comment, soaring conditions can be tricky here in the UK especially where I live only six miles from the south coast, so performance is key for a climb and glide man like me. A lot of you enjoy much better soaring conditions in your part of the world.

Apr 25, 2020, 08:48 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Tricky? As in frequently windy so you have a fight on your hands with coming back from downwind?

If you're not worried about design authenticity and just want a vintage look on a model which flies well as an RC model you could modify the wing airfoil to be something more similar to current sailplanes. That would give you a big boost in speed range and let you fight your way back upwind without using up all the altitude you got from the thermal you followed for maybe a touch too long... not that we ever do THAT!

The free flight old timers with their pudgy fuselages act a bit like they have a built in drag chute. My Record Hound is no exception to that. It's at its best at slower to at most moderate speeds. Some of that is the NACA 6409 airfoil but there's no doubt that part is due to the large fuselage cross section and wetted area.

If you're after a vintage look but with a good measure of windy day performance perhaps consider some of the designs from the early to mid 50's. There was still lots of great looking designs at that point but the fuselages were a trifle skinnier and would react well to lower camber more slippery airfoils used on fairly updated designs.

One of my favorites of this era is Goldberg's Cumulus. Still has "The Look" but is skinny enough and clean enough that if combined with a good modern sailplane airfoil could kick up its heels and move around quite well even in some stiffer wind conditions.

In my mind's eye the air inlet that provided cooling air to both the motor and battery pack would have fins of 1/64 plywood spaced about 3/32 to 1/8 inch (sorry, make that 2.5 to 3mm ) apart and profiled to match the shape of the front of the pylon.

And since this was supposed to be about the Record Hound here's some pics now that my camera got charged up. I've got some other shots out in the field. Including one with an .020 free flight replica sitting along side my RC version. But those are on another drive or memory chip I need to find and import to this new box. In the meantime here's a few shots of mine including one with a Tx sitting along side the nose cowl to illustrate what a tubby thing it is. But I loved building it and it's really neat to see in the air. And on milder days it moves around the sky just fine. Basically if it's a day where you would be OK with flying something like a Gentle Lady then it would also be a good day to fly the Record Hound.
Apr 25, 2020, 10:51 PM
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record hound

Original free flight built in the 80's, refurbished last year and converted to electric/RC. Excellent flier as is, and pretty distinguished profile. Don't stray too far.
Apr 26, 2020, 10:03 AM
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Thread OP
Thank you Bruce and Simmler for the comments and splendid pictures of the real thing. I hope my rendition will keep the flavour of the original although I can immediately see that the distinctive anhedral on the tail plane will be missing. I have a lot to look up to!

Moving to your comments Bruce the Hound will have a wing with a modern HQ section that is a good fit for scale and vintage models. I have already used it on several vintage E-powered models and it performs well. With the CG in the correct place my Southerner 68 and Bandit 78 move around the sky and will come back from down wind without too much drama given that they are not out and out gliders. Thermal performance is also sound.

Back to the fuselage build. I have reduced the fuselage length behind the front bulkhead by 10ins. The TVC is still OK at 0.5 and it should make it easier to achieve a good CG position without recourse to too much nose lengthening or ballast. I am keeping the side profiles largely as is although the fuselage at the front and back will be reduced in depth to some extent. The fuselage will also be slimmer, aimed at accommodating the electric motor inside 1/4 inch balsa side cheeks. I have taken care to ensure that the fuselage width at the tail matches the donor tail plane with split elevators. Remember the flying surfaces are already built and used on my Bandit 78.

The bottom boom is made up of four laminations of 1/16 balsa 1/2in wide put together with white glue around a pin former. The lower crutch on which the fuselage will be built is of 3/8in by 1/8in balsa strip.

Apr 27, 2020, 03:43 AM
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Thread OP
Thank you for the Ehling triangle suggestion Tom. I have had a look on the link and it is a very easy build concept. For a slightly more complicated build the other way up a Paageboy could fit the bill. I have actually thought about the Paageboy for Mills 1.3 power as I have a nice example with a throttle which is looking for a home.

Apr 27, 2020, 09:32 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
The Paageboy is a great model Richard, IMO possibly the best flying model of all Vic Smeed's designs, and that is saying a lot. As a flying machine it is MUCH better than the more well known Tomboy. All mine were built back in the day and were all (all TWELVE of them!!) free-flight powered either by E.D Bees or Frog 150s - with the latter engine and without the payload they were definitely hot and took a bit of trimming. Your throttled 1.3 would be more than adequate for an R/C version. Only comment I would make is that you need to use good firm (hard even!) 1/2" x 1/8" for the crutch and the one weak point on the fuselage is where it changes from rectangular to triangular at the wing TE, a really substantial fillet under the one rear longeron is worthwhile as well as the pieces of 1/4 square which form the change of section.
Apr 28, 2020, 01:31 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
You've clearly got an image in mind that is inspired by rather than a slavish copy of the Hound. I look forward to seeing what you come up with in the end.
Apr 28, 2020, 02:34 PM
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Thread OP
Well, there is nothing like a mention of the Paageboy to get George going.

Time to move on and develop the concept. I drew up the front bulkhead and split it at the lower crutch level. This allowed me to build the lower section of the fuselage on the board. Bruce used cardboard formers to help form all this as per the original but I have decided to use balsa formers here. The front bulkhead and rear fuselage former were pinned and glued in place and the lower stringer added taking care to achieve a straight fore and aft alignment. The intermediate former positions were marked on and the crutch, the height and width of the formers measured off and then cut out and glued in place. The lower fuselage profile matches the original albeit shortened by 10ins.

The next stage involved removing the lower part from the board and to add top formers, again cut from sheet rather than being formed of sticks. I shall try and preserve the profile as much as possible although the top mounted tail plane will define the rear profile to some extent. While adding the top formers I decided to stiffen the fuselage with 3/8 by 1/8 balsa diagonals. More about forming the top section next time.

Thank you for the comments thus far. Please feel free to contribute and post any Hound style pics for us all to enjoy.

Apr 28, 2020, 08:30 PM
I'd rather be flying.....
JeffMac's Avatar
Watching your interesting project..

Best regards,

Apr 29, 2020, 01:33 AM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
I used cardboard because the structure called for strip "downrights" to the lower keel. So the cardboard was only temporary to hold the lower keel in place. Your setup is using formers which is way different.

The "scale" of the view in the picture showing the glue bottle makes me think that this is quite a bit smaller than the original. What's the span going to be?
Last edited by BMatthews; Apr 29, 2020 at 01:38 AM.

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