Originally Posted by MK

Similar story. A while ago I ordered three 3S 1350 Rhinos from HK. All three had a bad cell. I did a chat with customer service and sent them pictures. They sent out new ones immediately. The new ones were fine. They told me to dispose of the bad ones as they didn't want them back.

Being the inquisitive frugal person I am , I decided to cycle them a few times. All three came back to normal function. I have been using them ever since (2-3 years?) with no issues. They have one of the lowest IRs of packs in my stable.

probably not the best thing to put in a public forum. one of the reasons prices go up is because losses have to be covered. you may not of intentionally scammed the company but others can take your advice and do so.

Originally Posted by pdooley

probably not the best thing to put in a public forum. one of the reasons prices go up is because losses have to be covered. you may not of intentionally scammed the company but others can take your advice and do so.

Sorry, your logic is flawed here.

Prices go up to cover losses of defective products? Well then make better products!

How is this a scam and how can anyone use this method as a scam when you first have to prove that the delivered product was defective? This was done with photos and videos demonstrating the fact. Without this you will never get a replacement. These were truly defective products with one cell below a lipo's minimum voltage.

And HK didn't want the defective products back. What would they have done with them, try to cycle and fix them themselves, potentially failing again if sent to another customer? In their view, it's a loss and they didn't want them back. What happens to the packs afterwards does not change that fact. I would have gladly sent them back if they wanted them back. But what would HK do with them? Most likely throw them away. Yeah, a loss!

I had a 50/50 chance of resurrecting them and I took the risk of my planes to try them out. Some may not take that risk but I did as I had the technical knowledge and skills to at least give it a try. Maybe I can save some landfill space for other things.

To say that people can use this methodology to scam HK is pretty imaginative on your part. Next time we order we'll ask HK to send us defective items so we can scam them.

Originally Posted by MK

Sorry, your logic is flawed here.

Prices go up to cover losses of defective products? Well then make better products!

How is this a scam and how can anyone use this method as a scam when you first have to prove that the delivered product was defective? This was done with photos and videos demonstrating the fact. Without this you will never get a replacement. These were truly defective products with one cell below a lipo's minimum voltage.

And HK didn't want the defective products back. What would they have done with them, try to cycle and fix them themselves, potentially failing again if sent to another customer? In their view, it's a loss and they didn't want them back. What happens to the packs afterwards does not change that fact. I would have gladly sent them back if they wanted them back. But what would HK do with them? Most likely throw them away. Yeah, a loss!

I had a 50/50 chance of resurrecting them and I took the risk of my planes to try them out. Some may not take that risk but I did as I had the technical knowledge and skills to at least give it a try. Maybe I can save some landfill space for other things.

To say that people can use this methodology to scam HK is pretty imaginative on your part. Next time we order we'll ask HK to send us defective items so we can scam them.

No, your ability to comprehend is flawed. You got replacement batteries for free and were able to keep the originals and admitted they are fine years later with one of the lowest IR of any of your packs. Someone might see that as way to cheat a vendor.

but now you're saying the batteries are defective? speaking of logic, I'm wondering about yours.
You said you had a 50/50 chance of resurrecting them? Where did that data come from? You said all of them came back, that's 100% success, simple math.
and why would you risk flying them in a plane? It's very easy to test them on the bench if you know what you're doing. Yes I understand your concern initially seeing the low voltage, but now seeing them cycle fine and the low IR's, you should have no fear flying them in your plane.
You may or may not know that lipos sometimes need to cycle a few times before reaching their rated performance, very much the case with your "defective" packs.

but hey, you seem like a decent guy just sticking up for yourself and I know your actions were not malicious.
I don't have any more energy to argue about it.

Well then make better products!

We make excellent products. Our lipos have proven to be among the best (if not THE best) in numerous 'shootouts.' Considering the staggering number of lipos we sell the true failure rate is very low and we back up our products with excellent customer and product support.

These were truly defective products with one cell below a lipo's minimum voltage.

As it turns out they were NOT defective, that's the point.

To say that people can use this methodology to scam HK is pretty imaginative on your part. Next time we order we'll ask HK to send us defective items so we can scam them.

It happens. You would not believe what I see as I manage the RMA claims.

Rob
HK NY

Over the years I have seen many graphs and tables that show HobbyKing batteries are pretty damn good. When you consider how they are some of the cheapest batteries available, this is nothing short of amazing.

While I do think that people should issue an RMA whenever they get a bad product, I have seen many people in this hobby not understand the difference between a truly defective product and something that just needs to be cycled a few times to work great.

I blame some of that on all the lipo chatter that has happened on rcgroups. You have way too many experts saying that if a cell is more than .01 away from another, the battery is trash and should be thrown out. It's ridiculous. You have some people who are way too pedantic about something and the scare everyone else into thinking that no product is good enough unless you spend $500 on the battery.

Originally Posted by pdooley

No, your ability to comprehend is flawed. You got replacement batteries for free and were able to keep the originals and admitted they are fine years later with one of the lowest IR of any of your packs. Someone might see that as way to cheat a vendor.

but now you're saying the batteries are defective? speaking of logic, I'm wondering about yours.
You said you had a 50/50 chance of resurrecting them? Where did that data come from? You said all of them came back, that's 100% success, simple math.
and why would you risk flying them in a plane? It's very easy to test them on the bench if you know what you're doing. Yes I understand your concern initially seeing the low voltage, but now seeing them cycle fine and the low IR's, you should have no fear flying them in your plane.
You may or may not know that lipos sometimes need to cycle a few times before reaching their rated performance, very much the case with your "defective" packs.

but hey, you seem like a decent guy just sticking up for yourself and I know your actions were not malicious.
I don't have any more energy to argue about it.

Ah, good ol' hindsight is 20/20! And you have failed to recognize that. It's quite easy to do the analysis now that all the data points are in. But at the time of receiving the order the only data point is that one cell out of each pack was very low. I've had packs with one low cells and they never came back after 10 cycles. I guess that can be the second, but unrelated, data point.

Shouldn't one expect a pack with all cell voltages at or near storage voltage, like the replacement packs I received?

And where does it say the customer has to resurrect lipos that come with a low voltage cell and then hope it doesn't crash their plane after a few cycles?

A friend of mine had a similar situation with another vendor. He waited thinking a few cycles will bring them back. No biggie. He waited too long to do that and was past the return period. When he got around to cycling them, none of them came back.

Originally Posted by HobbyKing_CS

We make excellent products. Our lipos have proven to be among the best (if not THE best) in numerous 'shootouts.' Considering the staggering number of lipos we sell the true failure rate is very low and we back up our products with excellent customer and product support.



As it turns out they were NOT defective, that's the point.



It happens. You would not believe what I see as I manage the RMA claims.

Rob
HK NY

Rob, not saying your products are bad at all. I have over a dozen Rhino packs in use right now and a few Turnigy ones. You are the forward face of HK and you have been doing a fantastic job so continue to do what you do. I have met you in person at NEAT, Joe Nall, etc.

HK's customer service was exemplary in this instant and sent out replacements packs with all cells balanced at storage voltages. I would not hesitate to buy from HK again.

Originally Posted by MK

Shouldn't one expect a pack with all cell voltages at or near storage voltage, like the replacement packs I received?

Yes. But they're lipos and as such they are volatile and subject to a wide variety is conditions that can affect them.

And where does it say the customer has to resurrect lipos that come with a low voltage cell and then hope it doesn't crash their plane after a few cycles?

That's just RC 101. A truly faulty lipo won't come back to proper voltage and maintain good IR. Test, cycle, repeat. Any lipo in question goes into the test pile for future cycles and after 5-10 cycles if it's not good it gets binned responsibly. If after ~10 cycles it appears ok (as yours did) they go in the air!

Rob
HK NY

No argument there Rob. If I remembered correctly (it was a while ago that this happened), the single cell was less than 2V. At the time I wasn't too sure if the pack would come back as it was quite a difference between 2V and 3.85V.

Like I said, a friend of mine had a similar situation, different vendor, different brand. His never came back.

I decommissioned my Futaba FM radio in 2010 and i forgot to take out the Rhino battery.
I was doing CoVid cleaning and found it with 37% charge.

HK knows how to make up any losses. I bought an ARF that got smashed in shipment. Their response was either I file a claim with the shipper on their behalf or pay to return it to CHINA! Use A CC to protect yourself from these folks. They effectively circumvent PP return shipping by providing an overseas address which is cost prohibitive.

Did you come to this is just to complain about HobbyKing?

Originally Posted by kweasel

HK knows how to make up any losses. I bought an ARF that got smashed in shipment. Their response was either I file a claim with the shipper on their behalf or pay to return it to CHINA! Use A CC to protect yourself from these folks. They effectively circumvent PP return shipping by providing an overseas address which is cost prohibitive.

I'm sorry to hear about this but almost all returns are continental/regional, there are no overseas returns except maybe for NZ to AUS and parts of Asia. The only return to China would occur if the customer was in China or that was the only location available.

The response to any damage claim is (as far as I know) the same as any other vendor. A claim with the shipping co. needs to be made. We usually make them for you as it's usually on us to do so anyway. If you received a different response or would like further clarification please PM me.

Rob
HK NY

Originally Posted by Suko

Did you come to this is just to complain about HobbyKing?

Did my experience sound like a complaint? All I wanted was a replacement at reasonable cost. HK never gave me that option, it would have been cheaper to buy another than ship it back to the Chinese address they provided. This is the first time this has happened to me since I started mail ordering hobby supplies in 1983.

Originally Posted by kweasel

Did my experience sound like a complaint?

Yes, very much so. Especially since this is a thread about a battery sale and your issue wasn't even about a battery. It definitely seems like you came here just to air some dirty laundry.

Its not unusual. I see other people with grudges do the same thing in the threads of all the major hobby suppliers. People feel scorned and they go seeking out any chance they get to "tell their story".

Sorry things didn't work out for you. My suggestion is to stay out of hobbyking threads and don't buy from them anymore if you're that upset with how things turned out. No need to bring a complaint to every new HK thread on RCG.