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Apr 04, 2005, 08:06 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP

F3F & MoM Racing Counts for LSF Contest Points


Just got this message from Jim Deck, Secretary of the League of Silent Flight, and thought that I would pass it along. Sounds like F3F and/or Man-On-Man racing results will qualify for LSF contest points, so long as the appropriate level/participant ratio is met or surpassed.

"Steve,
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to confer with the rest of the LSF
leadership. We believe that F3F or MOM slope races DO qualify as long as
the number of entries in the event go along with the requirements at each
level. That's 5 entries for Level II, 10 for II, 15 for IV. and 20 for
Level V. One caveat: at Level V one of the wins should be a thermal event.
I hope this clarifies things,
Jim Deck Secretary, LSF"


Steve
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Apr 04, 2005, 08:09 PM
Retired Slope Racer
nwoods's Avatar
Awesome! I've conversed with LSF a number of times, and never even THOUGHT about having slope racing count for their qualifiations. Too Cool!
Apr 04, 2005, 08:20 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwoods
Awesome! I've conversed with LSF a number of times, and never even THOUGHT about having slope racing count for their qualifiations. Too Cool!
For those who have no idea what the heck we're talking about:

http://www.silentflight.org/LSF_Base/tasks.htm

When I read the rules, I didn't see any reason why F3F and MoM wouldn't qualify, insofar as they are most certainly speed events. I just always like getting a confirmation from LSF and/or the RCSE on these matters.

Personally I've always really liked the idea of the LSF, it's just that their stigma as being "all TD all the time" tends to turn proper slopers off. Not big on the competition stuff either. The tasks are cool, though.

It should be noted that the rules were written such that sloping is very much part & parcel of them--just seems like that got forgotten somewhere along the way, with the exception of the 8 hour slope requirement.

The only thing that I feel is totally whack is the "one Level V contest should be a thermal event." Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Does that mean the converse is true; i.e. you can't get Level V without at least one slope win?

Don't think that would go over so hot with the TDers... but hey, the "logic" cuts both ways, no? I've asked Jim for a clarification of same

Steve
Apr 04, 2005, 09:25 PM
Int'l Slope Observer
webguyjv's Avatar

But Why?


I know, I know - dumb question, right?

Well, call me a bit dense, but I just don't see the benefit in being a League of Silent Flight member. As I understand it from the site's homepage...
http://www.silentflight.org/
...it's all about ranking yourself in various tasks, where a witness (or several) will testify that you've achieved the next milestone.

So why isn't it just as good to compete in FAI competition? When you look at the back of your Model Aviation magazine, you can see that there are hundreds of events taking place throughout the country each year, and each is tied to one or many of the dozens of FAI categories (F3J, F3B, F3F, etc...).

Sorry, but I just don't get what I would get out of becoming ranked on the LSF list.

As a matter of fact, I was at Fall Fest in Visalia last October - one of the premiere TD events on the national stage (maybe even the world stage). While the contests were taking place, it was announced that one of the attendees had reached their next milestone in LSF ranking. I don't recall a lot of people being overwhelmed by this great news. I was more impressed with the contest rankings at the end of the festival.

Call me confused

Happy Flying ;-)

John
Apr 04, 2005, 10:06 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
John I think it's for "goal oriented" people who want objective (or at least relatively so ) criteria against which they can "judge" their performance and progress. Check out the task requirement summary, section 12, bottom of this page.

You'll notice that competition--for which the Visalia TD event would most definitely qualify--becomes a major part of advancing above Level I. Then there's the thermal and slope duration tasks---how many times have you flown for 8 hour straight? Me too

FWIW, setting an FAI world record counts as one competiton win--so there's a a reason to shoot for those goals, if they're the one which turn you on.

In the end, I think it's meant to be something quite personal. You don't "get" anything other than personal satisfaction and the estimation of your peers who understand what it's about. Probably the vast majority of people couldn't care less, and that's fine. In fact, that's perfect. Doing radical things simply for the sake of doing them has an appeal to some people--but not many.

LSF provides a structure for those who want it. It's not better than anything else, it just is. Like the classic saying goes, "If I have to explain it to you, you won't understand."

Steve
Apr 04, 2005, 10:14 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
...and that response wasn't meant as arrogant, cocky, or whatever. Sorry if it reads that way--ˇFue sin querer!

Sir, I was just trying to answer the question, sir!

Steve
Apr 04, 2005, 10:19 PM
Int'l Slope Observer
webguyjv's Avatar

Ok


I think I'll focus on brining up my F3F and MoM rankings for now. At some later date, I will likely want to see where I stand in LSF as well.

Your points are well taken, Steve.

I think we're blessed in California, to have such a mature competition structure fostered by the many clubs and groups. I know that just to name a few, Nathan Woods has a strong group in your area, and up here in NorCal Bart Vaio, James Osborne and Dave Reese have groups that hosts contests. The ASRO organization is the cornerstone of all of this, and it's exciting to go and look at their leader charts.

I think I can understand your points better, when I remewmber just how many people I've gotten dumb looks from, when I explained about my new interests (F3F and MoM) in the past six months alone. Competition is just a tiny piece of the whole picture that is silent flight, but I'm sure glad I'm getting a tiny taste of it (even though most of it is at the behest of my poor little Gulp SR).

Now if I could just get that F3B Eagle going

Happy Flying ;-)

John
Apr 04, 2005, 10:39 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by webguyjv
I think I'll focus on brining up my F3F and MoM rankings for now. At some later date, I will likely want to see where I stand in LSF as well.
Easiest thing to do, if you have any interest in LSF, is just to keep track of your race results as you move along. Doing the tasks for Levels I and II are easy, basically it's stuff we do all the time, and you don't need a "special" (i.e. LSF ranked) witnesses until you get to Level V...cake, because if you're like me you usually do a lot of flying with other people around. The only hard part is remembering to have someone sign you off!

Doing both of the above should help you progress pretty quickly. Of course, I say this as I sit here with my Aspirant voucher with only my 5 minute TD flight completed. Ah well, back to work...

Steve
Apr 04, 2005, 10:49 PM
Registered User
TFLG's Avatar
Steve, you're not old enough to be a member of the League of stuffy flyers

TFLG

Proud member of the LSH (league of silly hats)
Apr 04, 2005, 11:20 PM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFLG
Steve, you're not old enough to be a member of the League of stuffy flyers
Nor do I own a winch or proper TD aircraft

"That boy ain't right!"

I go back and forth on the LSF. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I think it's dumb. Generally speaking, I think it's way too TD oriented. Got a reply back from Jim (he's so patient, bless his soul) regarding my jib about the Level V flyers needing a slope victory for it to "really" count:

"Steve,
I guess one could say that but ... not everyone has ready access to good
slopes. I know a few Level V's who's only slope soaring experience was
their 8 hour flight.
Jim Deck
"

Eh, I don't have access to good TD flying...does that mean I don't have to do TD contests?

Mr. Laird I guess this means we need to start the LBS...League of Ballistic Slopin' (and other things that can be signified by BS)

Damn, wait a second...I'll never get much chance to do that either...sigh. I guess I'll have to content myself with the Axis for now

Steve
Apr 04, 2005, 11:24 PM
Mr. Innocent's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfimp
Mr. Laird I guess this means we need to start the LBS...League of Ballistic Slopin' (and other things that can be signified by BS)


Steve

DOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
Apr 05, 2005, 12:00 AM
Retired Slope Racer
nwoods's Avatar
I'm hardly one to talk, being a dedicated slope nut. But there is something to that flat land, slope on a string style of flying called TD (Thermal Duration). All the championship F3F and MoM pilots are aces at TD.

Darly Perkins
Joe Wurts
Gavin Botha
Tom Copp
Tim Cone
Etc..., and many, MANY more.

Becoming well rounded makes you better in every category, as the things you learn can be applied to all of them. Watching Joe Wurts max the climb out in the 30 second F3F start by timing the thermals and working them smartly is a joy to behold. Watching Darly Perkins pull a turn harder and sharper than should be possible is watching F3B skills in action. Watching Gavin hand launch a heavy slope racer in a flat grass field and spec it out for a series of speed runs on a no wind day is a tremendous learning experience.

Does LSF make them a better pilot? You bet it does. Does LSF matter? Not a bit. As Steve said, it's purely a personal mountain that needs to be climbed by some, and avoided by others.

There are literally tens of thousands of participants worldwide, and only a few Level 5's, and amazingly, even a few DOUBLE level 5's (went through the program twice!).

One of the very first requirements is fly a one hour continous slope flight. How hard is that? We could all start the LSF program today, if we wanted to. It's what happens later, and it's what happens along the way that make the program worthwhile.

Regards,

Nathan Woods
Apr 05, 2005, 12:36 AM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwoods
Becoming well rounded makes you better in every category, as the things you learn can be applied to all of them.
Ditto. Not bragging here, but comparing my skill development vs. people I meet who only fly one or two sites, and while I'm no Joe Wurts or even Joe Zepeda, flying a bunch of sites makes you way better than just flying the local stomping grounds. It's pretty easy to become the big fish in the small pond, and then you go to Pt. Fermin...

...and the realization is that Fermin is just another small pond, ultimately (though a very, very deep one hehehehe).

Anyways, I like having excuses to go to events and meet people, and occassionally fly too. LSF is just one more of those

Steve
Apr 05, 2005, 12:54 AM
It could happen...
InTheLift's Avatar
Nice detective work Steve...Level 5, here we come!!! WOOT!!!
Apr 05, 2005, 01:28 AM
VTPR & Slope Aerobatics
surfimp's Avatar
Thread OP
I wonder if WeaselCross can count? Muahahahahahah!

I swear the combat wasn't intentional...really!

Steve


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