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Feb 26, 2020, 01:07 AM
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Mini-Review

BetaFPV Beta65s Lite (with the V2.0 FC)


BetaFPV released their V2.0 of the Lite FC recently, which now includes a VTX and OSD builtin, as well as a Micro USB for firmware updating. And last week they finally updated their Beta65s Lite to use this new FC. It arrived last night so i thought i might post a little review in case anyone is interested in a cheap brushed whoop these days. I only have limited quad experience, I only got into flying after xmas 2019, and with two small kids and very restrictive drone laws, i have maybe less than 2hrs total flight experience. Despite this, the 65s Lite is my 5th tiny whoop after getting a toy E010, custom built Whoop Lite (silverware), custom built Beecore (Betaflight), and Inductrix FPV+ BNF.

As per other BetaFPV BNF products (from what i see), it comes in a nicely padded box with the drone, a battery and nothing else. No spare props, batteries, charger or instructions.
Instructions for the Lite FC can be found here, and you can see that it now comes with a bunch of new modes as per recent Silverware/NFE builds:
https://note.youdao.com/coshare/inde...F&gid=97550129
The documentation specifies Channel 5 for Arming, however for my model it was Channel 6 (Ch5 was for level/acro switching). I spent some time setting up my Jumper T8SG plus V2 so that the modes were somewhat understandable to me, will post that in a reply to this since everyone will have their own preferences.

The FC went into binding mode as soon as i powered it up, no need to press the bind button. Selected Bayang in the model protocol selector on my Jumper and bind went smoothly. By default it is set up to use TOY_TX, which has no arming button, so it arms and spins motors as soon as you increase throttle from zero.

Many of the settings can be configured through the OSD; entering this is done by holding throttle min, yaw left and full pitch forward (the TOY_TX gesture). So the first thing to do is go into Config and set TOY_TX to N. I also set T8SG to Y since thats the transmitter i am using. I checked the Github source and that seems to swap CH_INV and CH_RTH, both of which i have no intention of using (so i guess thats not important). Save and then power cycle the quad.
After that, OSD can be entered by throttle center, Yaw left and pitch forward, same as for Betaflight OSD. One very important point (BUG!) is that this OSD gesture doesnt care if you are armed or not, or in the middle of a flight!! a few times i was flying and the drone suddenly dropped like a stone and my OSD menu was on the screen. Dammit that is quite annoying. Hope this can be disabled while armed in a future firmware update.

Another issue i found was that while playing with the OSD menu, the video feed started getting blurred. I assume that the heat of the camera/vtx caused some condensation inside the lens (cant see it, but just trying to find reasons). I will pick off the hotglue on the lens thread and remove it/dry it out at some point but right now it is still useable, just nowhere near as clear as when i first booted it up.

Speaking of opening it up, i unscrewed the canopy to see what it looked like inside. From pics i thought the canopy would be a soft/flimsy blow molded plastic but it is a proper injection molded canopy with a fixed angle camera mount in it
https://betafpv.com/collections/came...o-micro-camera
According to the Beta65s lite product page its a 600tvl camera, but it looks identical to the one here. Due to the fogging though, i have no idea if its 600 or 1200 tvl.

And now for flying. This part of the review might be somewhat useless, since i still suck at flying (especially FPV). However the first reaction is that it has much more power than my 615 quads. I am still learning throttle control, so i am still bouncing all over the place while in FPV mode, but in LOS it is a rocket. I fly angle mode still, taking baby steps into Acro but its very stable in flight, no weird dips while turning, and bump recovery is excellent. 8 times out of 10 i can keep flying after bumping into the wall, very little oscillation etc. I did notice that after landing the motors tend to ramp up a bit and it oscillates on the ground (but i usually disarm as soon as i land, what is the point of being armed and not flying!).
Also, the motors spin when armed, which is something i dont like because when i crash, 9 times out of 10 one of the motors is blocked on something, so it has a high risk of burning a motor out. I see that can be configured in Silverware, it is currently set to the same channel as Arming (so motors spin when idle) - i would rather do it only in acro mode.

I kinda used up most of the shipped 300mah HV Lipo while setting it up, but on a GNB 300mah HV i get about 3 and a half minutes of flying/crashing, taking off again, crashing flying etc. It is a bit less than i get on my 615 quads (4-4.5mins), but also the low voltage warning is shown at 3.5v or something on the OSD, and cutoff is higher than my Betaflight model. Probably better for the batteries!

Erm, not sure what else to comment on, but if anyone has questions, suggestions please let me know.
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Feb 26, 2020, 01:15 AM
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Short startup video and Jumper T8SG setup info


BetaFPV Beta65s lite OSD startup (0 min 13 sec)

(cut short since that is my office and i am not quite sure if its ok to post videos of it!)

As i mentioned in the first post i guess everyone will have their own preferences. Maybe this will help a beginner? Maybe not.
I have my arming switch for all my other whoops as Switch G on the top left. And Switch D is for switching flight modes. Switch H on top right is for switching optional features on or off, in this case its Race mode when in level, or horizon.

So Channel 6 has Simple mapping, Source Switch G0, Curve Expo 0, scale 100

Next is my Level/Horizon/Acro switch which i have on Switch D, on the left.
Channel 5, Complex mapping, 3 mixers
Page 1: Switch D2, Fixed Curve, Scale 100 (Angle mode)
Page 2: Switch D1, Fixed Curve, Scale 100 (Horizon mode, in combination with Channel 8)
Page 3: Switch D0, Fixed Curve, Scale 0 (Acro mode)
Channel 8 is a simple mapping, Source Switch D1, Curve Expo 0, scale 100 (so when Switch D is in the middle position it sends channel 5 and 8 value 100)

Channel 7 is again a simple mapping, Source Switch H0, Curve Expo 0, scale 100 (This switches race mode on/off)

With this setup Switch D at the bottom is angle, middle is horizon, top is Acro. When in Angle or Horizon, Switch H enables race mode (where pitch is rates mode, roll is angle/horizon mode). Supposedly Turtle mode can be enabled by flicking the Flight mode switch to Acro and then turning race mode on or off. However it didnt seem to work for me and i feel like turtle mode is risky since most times when I crash, at least one motor is blocked.
Looking at the Github silverware source code, it seems that Channel 9 can switch PID profiles, and Channel 10 can switch Leds on or off. I tried those i am not even sure i would notice the PID change, the LEDs on/off seemed somewhat pointless but anyway its there.
Feb 26, 2020, 01:40 AM
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Sounds interesting. That bug that you can still invoke the OSD configuration when flying, is more than annoying though, hope they get that fixed soon.
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Feb 26, 2020, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloProFan
Sounds interesting. That bug that you can still invoke the OSD configuration when flying, is more than annoying though, hope they get that fixed soon.
Yeah i just created a ticket for it. It seems to happen fairly regularly - at least 3 times in the 4 batteries i have used in it so far. Not so bad in a small room, but it seems the sticks do not need to be in full travel to make it happen. So turning left while pushing forward with 75% or so stick deflection = menu.

Honestly it feels like i could probably fix the code myself (they link to the source code) but not sure about compiling and flashing just yet.

Edit yep, right there in OSD.c:
#define AETR ((-0.6f > rx[Yaw]) && (0.3f < rx[Throttle]) && (0.7f > rx[Throttle]) && (0.6f < rx[Pitch]) && (-0.3f < rx[Roll]) && (0.3f > rx[Roll]))

Yaw greater than 60% left, throttle between 30-70% , pitch over 60% and roll within 30% of center. Nothing checking if engines are armed.
Pretty basic bug
Last edited by Tokyo_Dom; Feb 26, 2020 at 02:05 AM.
Feb 26, 2020, 11:47 AM
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Looks like a nice update to a solid quad. Always liked the 65s lite, adding the integrated vtx and OSD is a nice touch. Also, looks like that might be the new 1/3 sensor C01 camera. Which is a nice upgrade over the A/M01 that comes with their AIO vtx combos.

Can you throw it on a scale for us, curious to see if the new revision made any difference in the weight.

Quote:
I kinda used up most of the shipped 300mah HV Lipo while setting it up, but on a GNB 300mah HV i get about 3 and a half minutes of flying/crashing, taking off again, crashing flying etc. It is a bit less than i get on my 615 quads (4-4.5mins), but also the low voltage warning is shown at 3.5v or something on the OSD, and cutoff is higher than my Betaflight model. Probably better for the batteries!
For flight time, you can take these tiny 1S packs down to 3.0-3.2 and be fine. I fly mine down to 3.0 regularly and they recover to over 3.5 resting. Charging them to HV probably damages them more than flying them down to 3.0

Quote:
Also, the motors spin when armed, which is something i dont like because when i crash, 9 times out of 10 one of the motors is blocked on something, so it has a high risk of burning a motor out. I see that can be configured in Silverware, it is currently set to the same channel as Arming (so motors spin when idle) - i would rather do it only in acro mode.
On mine I put arming and idle up on seperate switches for that reason. You don't need idle up on when flying in angle mode, and takeoff and landing is better with it off. For acro I just flip it on right as I take-off, you still have to disarm after crashing to stop the props though. Editing and Compiling silverware is pretty simple, and the new board has a usb on board so you don't even need the stm programmer.
Feb 26, 2020, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazenglory
Looks like a nice update to a solid quad. Always liked the 65s lite, adding the integrated vtx and OSD is a nice touch. Also, looks like that might be the new 1/3 sensor C01 camera. Which is a nice upgrade over the A/M01 that comes with their AIO vtx combos.

Can you throw it on a scale for us, curious to see if the new revision made any difference in the weight.


For flight time, you can take these tiny 1S packs down to 3.0-3.2 and be fine. I fly mine down to 3.0 regularly and they recover to over 3.5 resting. Charging them to HV probably damages them more than flying them down to 3.0


On mine I put arming and idle up on seperate switches for that reason. You don't need idle up on when flying in angle mode, and takeoff and landing is better with it off. For acro I just flip it on right as I take-off, you still have to disarm after crashing to stop the props though. Editing and Compiling silverware is pretty simple, and the new board has a usb on board so you don't even need the stm programmer.
Any idea how I could confirm that camera change? I tried looking at the chips on the back but don't have pics of the 1200tvl cmos camera to confirm. The fogging has cleared up, so it's nice and clear now.

OK so I weighed it last night, it is somewhat of a porker at 25.0g dry, 32.6g with a battery. It's heavier than my 615 whoops but I don't have another 716 to compare it to. However, my thrust tester measured 39g thrust, giving it 2.27:1 thrust, higher than the 820 powered inductrix fpv+ I have.
Still far off the brushless mob6 according to John Moore' s tests on YouTube but similar numbers to the us/ur65s

As for compiling, I will have a look into it. The compilation part isn't so much a worry as the fact it's a whole lot of code I don't know, and it seems they use the same code for brushless/brushed... the current source looks like some settings were changed for brushed motors.
Feb 26, 2020, 07:47 PM
Time For Me To Fly!
fastmax's Avatar
Nice write up of the v2. Lots of good info here. When I get a free minute I'll pop the canopy off of one of my v1's and snap a couple pics of the cam/vtx for you. Maybe we'll be able to determine some difference.
Feb 26, 2020, 08:27 PM
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Thanks.

Are the BetaFPV motors the best replacements for these 716s once they wear out? There seems to be far more options for 615 motors (i.e. cheaper options, on aliexpress/BG!). the 720s on the betafpv site seem like a bargain, even though i know they will stick out a fair bit
Obviously i am still a way off that but i'd like to have at least one spare set. My Beecore 615 whoop started making noise on one of the motors on the last flight. Definitely under 2hrs total runtime, but that motor had a bent shaft due to me being a dumbass while removing a prop so i was kinda expecting it to give out soonish
Feb 26, 2020, 08:37 PM
Time For Me To Fly!
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The BetaFPV motors are good. The Boldclash motors are also pretty good, and can be had for less. I do think the BetaFPV motors last a bit longer though. At least for me.

Another option are these motors which actually get good reviews from a lot of guys that are running them.
Last edited by fastmax; Feb 26, 2020 at 08:46 PM.
Feb 26, 2020, 11:20 PM
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Weird i thought i had replied. Boldclash doesnt ship to Japan, even from their China warehouse for some reason. The BetaFPV ones are $18 on amazon Japan, and if the xt-inte motors are passable, for that price i couldnt pass it up! So i ordered a couple of sets, So at least i wont be SOL if one of these fail.

So, i got another flight in at lunchtime, took some notes about flight characteristics. It seems to 'bounce' if it touches the ground, making it very hard to come in for a smooth landing (basically have to go to zero throttle and disarm immediately), and if i touch the ground during regular flight it takes a bit of effort to keep from turning into a kangaroo drone. Is this something to do with PIDs?

But i flew with much more confidence around my messy apartment, i just need to put more stick time in. It definitely has enough power for me. I wish the OSD had crosshairs, and actually a small dash in the middle of the left and right of the screen might really help with height awareness/control (I couldnt see options for that in the OSD menu)
Feb 27, 2020, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokyo_Dom
Any idea how I could confirm that camera change? I tried looking at the chips on the back but don't have pics of the 1200tvl cmos camera to confirm. The fogging has cleared up, so it's nice and clear now.

OK so I weighed it last night, it is somewhat of a porker at 25.0g dry, 32.6g with a battery. It's heavier than my 615 whoops but I don't have another 716 to compare it to. However, my thrust tester measured 39g thrust, giving it 2.27:1 thrust, higher than the 820 powered inductrix fpv+ I have.
Still far off the brushless mob6 according to John Moore' s tests on YouTube but similar numbers to the us/ur65s

As for compiling, I will have a look into it. The compilation part isn't so much a worry as the fact it's a whole lot of code I don't know, and it seems they use the same code for brushless/brushed... the current source looks like some settings were changed for brushed motors.
Take the canopy off, if it looks like the one attached underneath then it is prob the c01.

25g is a bit heavier even though the board is more compact, my 716 whoop weighs in at 23.9. The difference is probably in the canopy, looks more robust than the old one.

Editing is usually pretty straight forward, just stay on the config page and all the changes you need to make should be simple comment in/out or number changes. You shouldn't need to write any new code lines (except to maybe fix the OSD issue)
Feb 27, 2020, 10:50 AM
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Yep that's the one in there, so I guess it's the C01... nice
Bummer on the extra weight. The injection molded canopy is very solid though. The old one seems to be so flimsy.

Still working on my precision flying, and realizing how small my apartment is... Though when I perfect my flights in here I will be awesome anywhere lol
Feb 27, 2020, 11:13 AM
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the older canopies were flimsy, but not as bad as the real tiny whoop racer ones. those really suck.

the new camera/canopy assembly looks nice. reminds me of the boldclash f03 I ran for a while.
Feb 27, 2020, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazenglory
Editing is usually pretty straight forward, just stay on the config page and all the changes you need to make should be simple comment in/out or number changes. You shouldn't need to write any new code lines (except to maybe fix the OSD issue)
After spending far more time than i should have poring over the code, i think the OSD issue can be fixed with this:
#define AETR ((-0.6f > rx[Yaw]) && (0.3f < rx[Throttle]) && (0.7f > rx[Throttle]) && (0.6f < rx[Pitch]) && (-0.3f < rx[Roll]) && (0.3f > rx[Roll])) 
This should be changed to
#define AETR ((!aux[ARMING]) && (-0.6f > rx[Yaw]) && (0.3f < rx[Throttle]) && (0.7f > rx[Throttle]) && (0.6f < rx[Pitch]) && (-0.3f < rx[Roll]) && (0.3f > rx[Roll])) 
I will see what BetaFPV support says though.

I had a look at the OSD firmware code as well, and it seems a center line (crosshairs) is supported, just no idea how to enable it. I suspect it can be done from OSD.c in the Silverware code as well, but i am not that good a programmer!


I am noticing a slight tilt with the camera, not sure if thats the craft that is flying on an angle, or the camera mounted slightly off, or a problem with my FPV viewer (dont laugh, i am just using an ROTG01 Pro receiver with my phone). Reason i say that is that i noticed a similar lean with my other betaflight build
Feb 28, 2020, 12:55 AM
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I have built a hex with my change to prevent the OSD menu showing up, and to map Idle_Up to its own channel. But now i am a bit hesitant to load this onto the FC as there are no real instructions for flashing the V2 FC (i.e. without the ST-Link tool), and it all seems a little more daunting than the all-automatic Betaflight flashing process.
The hex is also 79kb, compared to the 32kb i see for most of the b03 hex files, is that going to cause problems etc? Maybe i should wait for Betafpv support (i have asked for the stock hex, and instructions)


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