Thread Tools
Mar 02, 2020, 06:47 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Thread OP
Don’t be sad , DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!… We are many voices , But we ALL need to be Together on this … !!!
Latest blog entry: Lost plans
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Mar 02, 2020, 08:34 AM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Hopefully this comment will inject a small ray of sunshine into things.....


Of all the RC planes I have ever flown, only two foamie designs have ever stood out head and shoulders above all the others that I've tried (and I have lost count of those). Both of these particular designs fly superbly well below 8.5 ounces (241 gram) AUW. They are:


1. Nutball, by Goldguy

2. Wisel, by SpeedsterDen (for gale force winds and 'big air' it needs to be scaled down from 900mm to 700mm to maintain adequate wing loading whilst keeping below 250g).


From my own research it seems that there is another equally good slope soarer to the smaller Wisel - the 28" Boomer, also developed by Goldguy and based on Chinook/Red Herring designs. I haven't yet built one myself, but will soon.



And - as I'm sure others will be quick to point out - I have only scratched the surface of the list of outstandingly good, proven foamie designs.


There is something else I feel I'd like to say, concerning the sheer joy of flying these good designs. It is this - the less they cost, the more I have found I enjoyed them. The planes that have given me the least pleasure have been the most expensive (hundreds of dollars and generally ARF or RTF).


One last thing...... many, many years ago the owner of a software company commented that his spreadsheet software earned his company millions of dollars in profits. He could never figure out why people bought it, though, because 98% of his customers used less than 2% of the functionality of the product. I think my Tx/Rx is like that - it has far more channels (telemetry and primary), options, switches, bell whistles and haptic vibrations, colour display screens and lady-voice commands and warnings than I could ever want or need..............

Dave
Mar 02, 2020, 09:54 AM
Registered User
Ace12GA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpw
Don’t be sad , DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!… We are many voices , But we ALL need to be Together on this … !!!
I trusted MAAC, of which I was a member at the time, to do the right thing back in 2017 when this started up in Canada. They spectacularly failed. They ensured insane rules for anyone outside of a MAAC club, and exceptions for MAAC clubs only. Clearly thinking of increasing club membership. Which is the problem; MAAC, AMA, etc... don't stand for the hobby, despite claiming they do. They stand for their clubs, and their sources of revenue, and the hobby be damned.

Here is where I see the problem, and no offense aimed at anyone here that is retired. Organisations like MAAC and AMA are largely run by retired people. The majority, though not all, of these people are rigidly set in their ways. Their way, or the highway, essentially. So far as the bulk of those people are concerned, quads and FPV is evil millennial drivel. Foamies are beyond reproach and so far below them, as to not exist at all. I have encountered that thinking at nearly every club I have visited. If you're not flying scale gassers, you're not welcome at their clubs. I have been asked to leave two different clubs in my area for flying electrics, and quads. I didn't fit in.

I helped start a new club, which unfortunately had some downsides, and ultimately folded when the property owner got divorced. The downsides? We are all in our thirties and forties, with kids and full time jobs; we had a hard time keeping up to the maintenance at the field, when we could only find the time to make it out to the field on Sunday's typically.

I tried working with regional reps at MAAC. There is no interest in talking electrics, scratch built, multirotor, STEM, etc... The really brutal truth is that the current orgs are outdated and need to be torn down and rebuilt, but the people that see that need, are too busy with jobs, and raising families. My only interest in being a MAAC member at this point is for the insurance. Maybe that is where they need to go, just be a group insurance provider for RC pilots. Stop representing the hobby, they don't represent.

Sorry guys, I'm derailing this thread. I love foamies. I've missed flying them. I've got a couple on the table I'm working on right now. Really looking forward to this years flying season, with all my sub 250 birds.
Mar 02, 2020, 10:58 AM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Ace - I don't think you are derailing the thread. I think you are making a valid point.


Sadly, your experience in Canada matches mine in the UK.


I am old and retired myself, so it is especially sad to me personally to see how dogmatic and set in their ways some of these office-holding old men are - and curiously it is always men, never women. Funny, that.




On a brighter note, I have just bought one of these AX3s from Germany. Unfortunately, the old timers in the UK also voted to leave the EU and so importing AX3s (and anything else) will now become more difficult........


For a foamie (3mm Depron) weighing just 140 grams they require good eyesight, good coordination, good reflexes and the ability to stand upright in a gale....... after climbing a big hill. Not a model popular with geriatric crusty officials.......... but I like to think of the AX3 as being a glimpse of the sort of foamie of the future that can blow anyone's socks off irrespective of legislation that we have been unable to shield our hobby from



AX3 bei 50km/h Wind (4 min 14 sec)


Dave
Last edited by pardshaw; Mar 02, 2020 at 11:25 AM.
Mar 02, 2020, 01:45 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Ace:

I was talking to a MAAC member recently and apparently they are taking a survey in Model Aviation to see what members belong to sanctioned clubs. This is to ascertain who of the recently joined are just trying to avoid TC's extreme requirements. Keep in mind this is just second hand info.

Frank
Last edited by goldguy; Mar 02, 2020 at 02:10 PM.
Mar 02, 2020, 02:05 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
I was a MAAC supporter for decades, my number was 8408L, the 'L' is for leader member, not learner.

Eventually I got involved in toy airplane politics and ended up on the board of directors. When that experience ended I never renewed my membership and left two clubs where I had been a member for years. I dumped all my big gas, glow and diesel, going all electrons and foam.

That's the story how the fun began, ended and began again for me. It's back to being MY hobby.
Mar 02, 2020, 02:58 PM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy

That's the story how the fun began, ended and began again for me. It's back to being MY hobby.

Similar outcome for me. I quit my flying club and scrapped all of my powered models (Viking bonfires involved in that episode).


Now I only fly small unpowered gliders on the slopes and I too feel that I have reclaimed MY hobby. I feel spiritually wholesome and clean when I fly now (and yes, I know how that sounds).


I don't blame the legislators - they are only doing what legislators do. What got my goat was all the constant whining and gnashing of teeth on the various fora and the club. The constant drip of that negativity eventually sucks the pleasure out of the hobby.


In the UK now we have to carry ID documents and temporary exemption certificates to fly anything bigger than 250 grams, and the plane has to have its serial number matched to the Operator and the designated pilot has to be identified also by his/her Flyer Number or valid temporary exemption certificate. Workable....... but utterly joyless.


I see sub-250 gram slope soarers as a great opportunity to have real fun and excitement and be completely free from all the insane (literally insane) regulations.
Last edited by pardshaw; Mar 02, 2020 at 03:11 PM.
Mar 02, 2020, 03:39 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
Yes, I understand, I had a spiritual moment this weekend at the slope.

It was all about the maiden of this ...................... https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...m-Build-Thread

Check the last post ..................
Mar 02, 2020, 04:22 PM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy

Check the last post ..................

Wow....... now I see why you've changed your avatar!

Thirty inch span, flat foam sheet and spectacular performance with added lead ballast in 30 mph wind. I have got to get me one of those......

Thanks, Frank.

Dave
Mar 02, 2020, 04:38 PM
flyin' fool
goldguy's Avatar
When my FBs saw this phenomena they all ran home to build one.

I've built a few other flatty slopes that all worked well, but none this spectacular!!!!! You'll notice that the videos on the Instigator thread are all in light conditions. In big wind with ballast it flew as good as the Wicked Wings out that day. Actually better, because I got to about 300 feet up and 800 out over the ocean. They couldn't do it.
Mar 02, 2020, 05:11 PM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
I'm very impressed with its capabilities in big air. So I will start building this week.

Here in the UK Lake District the ground (grass) is more or less permanently wet. So I wonder if the paper will start to get soggy after a few landings? Is rattle can spray varnish a good idea or is it too much added weight? I'll have to experiment, I guess!

Dave
Mar 02, 2020, 09:08 PM
Registered User
Ace12GA's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldguy
Ace:

I was talking to a MAAC member recently and apparently they are taking a survey in Model Aviation to see what members belong to sanctioned clubs. This is to ascertain who of the recently joined are just trying to avoid TC's extreme requirements. Keep in mind this is just second hand info.

Frank
Yes, I saw that. My understanding is that they are looking to actually revoke memberships if you do not belong to a sanctioned club. From what I've heard, they are trying to force membership to a club for all members. From an offical email sent out back in September:

Quote:
We are in need of a few moments of your time, to confirm that the information that is held about which clubs you belong to, is correct. A number of folks do not show any affiliation, with any club. This was not a show stopper in the past. However, things have changed. The clubs and MAAC, must be able to demonstrate that they know who is a member of which club.
Mar 03, 2020, 05:26 AM
Pass me that hammer...........
pardshaw's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace12GA
Yes, I saw that. My understanding is that they are looking to actually revoke memberships if you do not belong to a sanctioned club. From what I've heard, they are trying to force membership to a club for all members. From an offical email sent out back in September:


I hope that idea doesn't catch on.

The equivalent organisation to MAAC here in the UK is the British Model Flying Association (BMFA). One of BMFA's great strengths is that it has a number of membership classes (categories), one of which is called "Country Member" . A Country Member is someone who does not belong to any club at all, but is fully insured and fully represented by the BMFA. Perfect for flyers who only want to slope soar, for example, and have no club nearby.

Forcing membership to a club for all (MAAC) members would surely be a very bad step, would it not? By analogy with the UK it would seem likely to lead to something of a self-inflicted loss in the hobby.
Mar 03, 2020, 06:44 AM
gpw
gpw
“There’s no place like Foam”
gpw's Avatar
Thread OP
Being also Old and retired , we were an AMA member for many years until we were the victim in an accident and required their insurance which was in truth , just an additional policy to your homeowners . When I tried to make a small claim for the 27 stitches I had received over my eye , ( another member's plane hit me ) They actually sent two high power lawyers to depose me , and they did everything they could to say I was in the wrong ( victim) despite the Club President standing next to me saying I was Not at fault at all , as he was there standing right next to me when I was hit . . It was like I was on Trial . ( This was the modelers organization I’d been so loyal to for 30 years , that was actually working against me )
It was then that I realized the organization was Not for modelers but For Profit … Sadly they’d bullied all the local clubs to require membership “for the Insurance” , but nobody seemed to know how the insurance worked , or that it was just in addition to your homeowners policy . It’s all based on lies , and the greed of the Big Hobby distributors dictating policy profitable to them …

We either play their game or not at all … That’s not right !!!

I’d actually quit the hobby by the early 90’ s disgruntled by all this … It was only in 2002 , my old Frend knocked on the door with something “new” … a Foamie …something I could fly close to home … by myself …and we were hooked , as you know …
And if it’s true we can no longer fly because we might disrupt some Pizza delivery , well then , we’ve been SOLD OUT !!! Time to Educate people what we do !!!

Let’s not bring a chuck glider to an Air Combat … We know that “ Parkflyers” are not really favored by the Industry or the Organizations , as we really don’t need them … So we can expect NO support from them either . If we are to organize into a “voice” for our rights , we do it Together . No one will stand for us , but us !!!
Best start writing your letter , go online , do SOMETHING …!!!
Last edited by gpw; Mar 03, 2020 at 06:59 AM.
Mar 03, 2020, 08:43 AM
Registered User
Ace12GA's Avatar
That's an interesting point about the insurance. The only reason I'll renew my MAAC membership at this time is not for the insurance, but for the exemption to the Transport Canada rules and regulations. If another body existed that better represented me, and got me exemption from TC, I would support that.

This makes me wonder if national "clubs" are really what the hobby needs anymore. It's almost like we need one international organisation with regional representation to take the place of MAAC, AMA, BMFA, etc.. An organisation based around small scale electrics and multirotors, to actually represent where the hobby is going, as opposed to clinging to a past most new hobbyists are not interested in.

Look at the funding model for MAAC, AMA, BMFA, etc... You give them money; MAAC is about $100CDN a year. You then give a club money, which is another ~$100CDN a year. What do you get for that? A place that doesn't welcome electric planes? An organisation more concerned with money, and sending out a print magazine, than actually representing the hobby you love for all hobbyists?

Now look at the funding model being used by so many groups now. Patreon, Kickstarter, GoFundMe, etc.. Crowd funding. Most of them ask for coffee money, per month. I personally support a few different things via Patreon, because I like what they're doing, and $5 a month is nothing to me. Okay, more like $20 a month at this point, because I support a few. I would personally have no issue tossing $5~$10 a month at an organisation like this. I feel like a lot of hobbyists would, and it would only increase over time. The Flitetest and Rotor Riot guys are a good example of this. They understand the hobby. They understand protecting it. They manage to keep an audience and attention through mechanisms new pilots see. More importantly, they attract new pilots, with no discouragement. They make a living off of community support, sponsorship's, and social media.

A proper modern organisation could do that, support itself by community support, and social media, while representing the hobby. Don't get me wrong, I have no idea how to swing the political side of this equation. I spent a decade working in the not-for-profit and charity world; which is to say I talked to a lot of politicians around project funding. I don't know how to translate that to working with politicians and regulators though.

It might be time for MAAC, AMA, BMFA, etc.. to all transition to a group policy model, providing speciality insurance; like some other groups for sports do. It seems almost every person I know that is in this hobby, doesn't like MAAC, AMA, BMFA, insert local thingy here, etc..

Oh, and I have done something. I actually did send a submission in to the FAA around this whole mess, despite being Canadian. I know it probably doesn't matter, but I feel like all you guys south of border need the support. I also sent submissions in to Transport Canada, my local MP, and MPP, around the rules Transport Canada put in place last year. Not that it mattered. I didn't even get a form letter back from either my MP or MPP's office. Our minister of Transportation, despite being a former astronaut, is a flaming moron; apparently once you get elected and given a ministerial posting, your IQ drops 50 points. Or so it seems, anyway.


Quick Reply
Message:

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Today I flew at, tomorrow with you MoldyStain Multirotor Drone Talk 13 Apr 08, 2016 08:35 AM
Discussion My shipment arrives tomorrow and I'm so excited I can't sit still hozrhayt Beginner Multirotor Drones 3 Mar 30, 2016 11:49 AM
Yippee! Picking up an ECX Torment tomorrow. klr250rida Off-road Cars 0 Dec 04, 2015 11:37 PM
Discussion i want to go out and build a foamie plane tomorrow. can i goto home depot, an art sup captaingeek Foamies (Scratchbuilt) 11 Jul 09, 2009 04:48 PM