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Feb 09, 2020, 12:27 AM
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Discussion

Emax TinyHawk II Freestyle


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TH2FS finally showed up




Tried to bind it to my old Futaba 7UAFS 72Mhz transmitter with FrSky DFT 2.4G module, just to see what happens. It bound to it, but once in BetaFlight there was no receiver activity, no matter what combination of things were tried. I got nervous since I had accidentally pressed the BOOT button numerous times instead of the BIND button on the other side of the FC board. Was able to do a test-bind with Mike's FrSky transmitter to verify the quad does work and I haven't hosed anything, yet

I have a RedCon R720X DSMX receiver that I'll be using with this quad. It will require complete disassembly as the solder pads for RX1, GND and 3.3V are on the bottom side of the flight controller board. And, there is a capacitor soldered across the 3.3V and GND pads by Emax (not shown this way in the user manual) that needs to stay.

While I have the quad apart I will go directly to a XT30 power connector as well. Along with the quad I bought 2 450mAh, 2 525mAh, and 2 550mAh lipos to see which one's I like the best, all with XT30 connectors.

I need to come up with some way to keep the flight controller and the motors from moving during the surgical process since everything has to be removed from the bottom plate (frame). Thinking of borrowing Joshua Bardwell's technique of using a blue sticky-putty compound to hold everything in place ... we'll see how that goes. The motor wires are pretty fragile and I don't want to break any if a motor accidentally dangles or something.

Here we go .... !
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Apr 22, 2021 at 07:51 PM.
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Aug 22, 2020, 11:56 AM
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Swapped out the power connector for an XT30. I think I either need to shorten the wires, or remove some of the shrink tubing on certain batteries - when it's too long it causes nasty bends when the battery is plugged in.

Installed the RedCon R720X DSMX 6 Channel receiver, and the procedure was a success !!

I disassembled the quad but left the motors connected to the flight controller for obvious reasons I used sticky-putty to hold each motor and the flight controller upside down so when the bottom plate was removed the motors ability to flop around (and break those delicate wires and solder joints) was minimized.

I left the capacitor across 3.3V and GND as recommended by Emax. Soldered the receiver wires to the sides of the capacitor; RX1 was free so that one was easy. There is just enough room under the flight controller for the Rx - I added a few layers of electrical tape to the back of the Rx to help eliminate some slop. I routed the antenna out to one of the arms opposite side of where the video antenna is. Used a zip-tie and heat shrink to give it a slight downward angle.

I decided to not mount the ziptie/video antenna to one of the arms as this brought the antenna very close to the props. Instead, I mounted it to the top plate next to the battery. Now it wants to bend 'up' instead of 'down' as it came stock.

I'm using a battery strap from my GEPRC Cinequeen as the one included with the quad was too short and not as good quality.

I lowered the camera angle a little - it was pretty high. Currently its more like the tilt on the CineQueen.

Finally I cut a anti-slip pad and stuck it to the top plate to keep the batteries from moving. I also tucked the antenna from the onboard FrSky Rx in so it doesn't stick out or get chopped by the props.

Did a quick test in BetaFlight, made some changes to the config and receiver tabs and it came to life! Still need to tweak some things, reverse a switch or two, etc.

Got 4 test flights in this morning. Two with 550mAh packs, and two with 450mAh packs. Have 525mAh packs to test next. Easy five minute flights just cruising around.
...
At first I thought the rates were too low or soft for me, but after then 2nd flight I realized how much smoother I was cruising around - no jerky/sudden yaw or roll adjustments, cleaner lines. Looks really nice on the recorded DVR video This thing handles some wind too, very well.

Off to a great start, now for the tweaking to begin
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:45 PM.
Aug 25, 2020, 08:40 AM
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Looks like 4:00 to 4:30 is a safe flying time for now. Odd thing - when flying all packs for 4:30 with same flying style (out front of house, no aerobatics or anything) it was the 525's that had the lowest post flight settled voltage - 3.75V-ish. The 450s and 550s were both at 3.85V-ish. Was expecting the 450s to be the lowest. Might have to redo that test ...

I damaged one new 450mAh lipo's balance wires & connector, and one of my 6x parallel balance cables by plugging in the balance connector wrong, then plugging in the main leads. There was crackling, sizzling, and smoke. Melted the balance connector, de-soldered wires from the 6x parallel cable, and turned the battery's flexible stranded balance wires into brittle solid wires. Damn, that sucked !! Totally my fault, I was reading and replying to a text when I should have been focusing on hooking the lipos up to the charger correctly. Later, when my nerves calmed down, I repaired both the battery and the parallel cable. The two cell voltages seem okay (3.75-3.8V) and their IRs seem good (16 & 17mOhm). First few charges will be outside in the back yard.

So the stock flip and roll rates aren't too bad. The yaw is a little slow for my liking, but I noticed a definite difference (major improvement) in the smoothness of my flying. Emax was correct - rates profile#1 is for thumbers and results in really smooth flights, which can be seen in the DVR recordings of course. I'm going to modify my CineQueen with similar settings as this will result in much better looking 4K video from that quad !

I was getting 150m easy with the DSMX Rx and 200mW. The only breakup occurred when trees got between me and the quad - otherwise the signals were clean at 150m.

...
I modified the OSD - there is no current measuring ability so no mAh, Amps or Watts. I made it similar to how I have the CineQueen setup for consistency. Also changed to bolder fonts since the defaults are a little hard for me to read quickly.

The arm/disarm, and flight mode switches are backwards from how I have them set on the CineQueen - need to fix those as well.

I need to see if there's a way to adjust the RunCam2's settings. I would like a little less color saturation, and I think the edge detection/sharpness is set too high, for my liking anyway.

And, I need to backup the quad - haven't done that yet

IT FLIES AWESOMELY !!
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:46 PM.
Aug 27, 2020, 11:14 AM
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The RunCam 2 Nano on the TinyHawk 2 Freestyle takes amazing night video:

...

Here's just before sunset:

...

RunCam tech support reported back that the settings for the RunCam 2 Nano are not adjustable
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:46 PM.
Aug 29, 2020, 01:08 PM
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Okay, now that I've gotten a few dozen flights on this guy, I spent some time tweaking things. Here's my punchlist:
  • Backup Quad (diff all, then save to file)
  • Setup OSD to match CineQueen4K, except no current measuring capability (no Amps, mAh, or Watts).
  • Changed OSD font to Clarity.
  • Changed Arm/Disarm polarity of SwitchH to match CineQueen4K (0 ARM, 1 DISARM).
  • Removed some heat shrink on the XT30 to prevent nasty wire bending (sharp angles).
  • Unlocked vTx and set it to my favorite channel and 200mW.
  • Set DX6 timer to 4:00 for 450mAh, 525mAh, and 550mAh lipos, for now.
Currently trying some different props.

Also going to try RateProfile #2, which has higher rates and per manual has been optimized for pinchers.
Added RateProfile #3, which is a copy of the CineQueen4K RateProfile #1.

Flight mode SwitchB setup was kept the same and the CineQueen4K changed to match:
  • 0 AIR
  • 1 HORIZON
  • 2 STABILITY/ANGLE
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Aug 29, 2020 at 05:05 PM.
Aug 29, 2020, 06:50 PM
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Here's a couple of initial flights with CineQueen (RateProfile #1) high rates:

...
Code:
 Roll:  RC Rate: 1.10  Super Rate: 0.73  RC Expo: 0.00  Max Vel(deg/s): 809
Pitch:  RC Rate: 1.10  Super Rate: 0.73  RC Expo: 0.00  Max Vel(deg/s): 809
  Yaw:  RC Rate: 1.10  Super Rate: 0.74  RC Expo: 0.00  Max Vel(deg/s): 840

Throttle MID: 0.25
Throttle Expo: 0.50
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:46 PM.
Sep 03, 2020, 09:14 PM
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This quad flies great with the higher rates from the CineQueen4k - lots of fun with great control; I can still fly with confidence
...
Also tried this quad on 1S. It appears to automatically detect the 1 cell voltage and switches to PID Profile #2. This quad flies amazingly well on 1S, even in a pretty good wind - WAY better than my old Inductrix FPV BL. And, I'm getting 4 minute flights with MyLipo 600mAh lipos, which recover nicely to 3.8V a minute or two after the flights
....
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:46 PM.
Sep 04, 2020, 03:07 PM
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I decided to also make a 1S to 2S to XT-30 cable, so I can reuse all of these 1S lipos I have sitting here. They were for my Inductrix FPV BL but now I can use them on the TinyHawk
Sep 04, 2020, 04:14 PM
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Here's some averaged power system stats (basic flying up and down the street, no tricks):

Battery: 1 x 1S 600mAh MyLipo
Flight Time: 04:05
Used Ah: 373 mAh
Discharge Rate: 91 mAh/min
Average Current: 5.48A
Estimated Flight Time: 05:15 (80% lipo drain)
Average Power: 5.48A x 3.7V = 20.28 Watts

On 1S, this quad draws about 2 amps less (average) than the Inductrix FPV Brushless.

Battery: 2 x 1S 600mAh MyLipo
Flight Time: 05:10
Used Ah: 320 mAh
Discharge Rate: 62 mAh/min
Average Current: 3.72A
Estimated Flight Time: 07:45 (80% lipo drain)
Average Power: 3.72A x 7.4V = 27.53 Watts

Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Sep 05, 2020 at 02:01 PM.
Sep 09, 2020, 06:29 PM
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Okay, well this is the exact opposite of what's happening with my TH2FS:

Thanks for contacting EMAX support
​When you use 1s it should be on rate/profile 1. If it is not switching correctly you will have to do it manually through the osd. Please read the link below
https://emaxusa2.freshdesk.com/suppo...-2-for-2s-lipo
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for choosing EMAX!


So for 1S the quad should be set to PID profile 1, and Rate profile 1.
And, for 2S the quad should be set to PID profile 2, and Rate profile 2.
According to the link Rate profiles don't automatically switch.

However, all of this conflicts with what's in the User Manual:

PID profile 1 is tuned and optimized for Tinyhawk II Freestyle with the provided 2x Emax 1S HV 450mAh battery for ultimate control in outdoor flight.

And

Rate profile 1 is designed for optimal outdoor flight for people who like to fly "thumber" style. Rate profile 2 is a more sensitive rate profile tuned for people who like to fly "pincher" style.


On mine, the PID profiles automatically switch, but exactly opposite from what the link says.
Mine didn't come with the yellow/black warning card in the box.

Sigh ... Clear as mud now.
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Sep 09, 2020 at 06:43 PM.
Sep 11, 2020, 06:51 PM
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Okay, here's an update from Emax after asking them why the previous response conflicts with the online user's manual:
Sorry this was my bad. I gave you information about the TH2 not the TH2 Freestyle. Yes you are correct about the rate profiles. As for the pid profile it does change automatically based on cells 2cells vs. 1cell. When using 2cells there is a throttle cap to give you better flight time along with adjustments to the pids to make it fly locked in. When using the 1 cell this changes to make the pids less aggressive and to remove the throttle cap. Hope this answers your question.
Thanks for choosing EMAX!
However, I can't find this 'throttle cap' set to anything other than 100% anywhere in the PID1, 2 or 3 settings ... (?)
Sep 12, 2020, 06:07 PM
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So PID Profile 1 had auto_profile_cell_count = 2, meaning, it would be automatically selected when a 2S pack was plugged in. But when I plugged in a 1S cell, it would default (I guess) to the next PID profile that didn't have a specific auto_profile_cell_count set, which in this case was PID Profile 2, but the quad flies like crap on PID profile 2.

So, I wanted to keep PID Profile 1 selected all the time (until I change it) so did the following:

profile 0 ; select PID Profile 1
set auto_profile_cell_count = 0 ; Turn off auto select
save ; save change to quad

Now profile 1 is used (if it's set) no matter which lipo configuration I use (1S or 2S).



Betaflight 4.0 Auto PID Profile by Battery Voltage auto_profile_cell_count (7 min 19 sec)


It flies amazingly well on 1S now

...
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:47 PM.
Sep 25, 2020, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot
Okay, well this is the exact opposite of what's happening with my TH2FS:

Thanks for contacting EMAX support
​When you use 1s it should be on rate/profile 1. If it is not switching correctly you will have to do it manually through the osd. Please read the link below
https://emaxusa2.freshdesk.com/suppo...-2-for-2s-lipo
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Thanks for choosing EMAX!

I had this email conversation 4 days ago with one of EMAX fine support stafferst, as it seems:

my initial question (I): "
" I have read in some sources that your betaflight settings are delivered with two different PID profiles and/or two different rate profiles. There's even a little difference in the BNF instructions to the RTF instructions aout that issue.
In the CLI dump in the download area I can only find a second rate profileö There is only one of the PID profiles. Can you enlighten me a little? can I just blindly use the CLI dump from you? (So ​​especially the profile area, because I play around a bit there)"

Support (S):
"1) With the TH2 freestyle there is only one rate/pid profile that we set up from the factory the rest are just stock betaflight settings."

(I)
1.: "just to clarify this. one PID profile, one rateprofile. Betaflight can there be very picky "

(S).:
"Yes only one rate/pid profile that is setup from us. If you switch to 2 or any other number it is just stock betaflight. We recommend staying on rate/profile 1 for the best flying experience. "

I
"thanks for your help"

...and now we are even more clueless than befor....
Sep 25, 2020, 07:45 PM
Rest In Peace SweetHeart
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LOL. I think he later said he was confused and thought I had a one of the other TinyHawks

I ended up disabling the auto-switching feature - its way better on PID1 for 1S and 2S.

But I realize others have gotten different setups and advice, so ... (?)

Oh, and these props are my favorite so far for 1S: https://www.racedayquads.com/collect...ose-your-color

...
Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Mar 28, 2021 at 08:47 PM.
Sep 26, 2020, 12:03 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot

But I realize others have gotten different setups and advice, so ... (?)
that is correct. When you ask 3 people, you get 4 differend opinions, based on 5 different staements from support


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