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Oct 28, 2020, 04:50 AM
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Tean's Avatar
I would suggest you consider the Matek Wing family of controllers. As the name implies they are designed for fixed wing aircraft and have extra power distribution stuff for supplying servos which you will need in a tricopter. The F722wing and F743 wing both have beefy voltage-selectable servo supplies along with a 9-12V supply for your video TX. The 722WPX is more compact but doesn't have a clean video TX power output.

Edit: The 722WPX does actually have a filtered 12V VTX output.
Last edited by Tean; Oct 28, 2020 at 08:07 AM.
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Oct 28, 2020, 06:33 AM
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KaffiFlight's Avatar
Hello and thank you for your answer. Yes, I like the wing FCīs of Matek and have a bunch of them in my planes. I was thinking about using a F411 WSE that I have here, instead of the plane, use in in the tri. I understand the benefit of those juicy BECīs, they would be perfect. But I have 2 concerns:
1.: the USB-connector is always upright. Hard, if not impossible to use once the board is mounted, unless you start modifying the stuff and mount it upright. Looks messy I guess.
2.: I am not very good with making electronics work that were not supposed to be used that way. I suspect problems with connecting a 4in1 board with a FC that is not supposed to be connected to it. Maybe there will be problems with functions that I can not oversee yet. INAV function allocation, programming ESCīs thorugh it(?)
Otherwise, yes, I agree and would gladly use one of those small wing-controllers. I like them.
The F722SE has a 5V 2A (3A burst) BEC - do you think itīs not enough for the servo + small SBUS-receiver?
Oct 28, 2020, 07:56 AM
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Tean's Avatar
I think most people would agree that a tricopter tail servo leads a hard life and its performance is critical to getting a decent feeling tail. A 5V 2A BEC is at best marginal and you're going to miss out on the extra performance that a higher servo voltage can provide. Pretty much all modern servos can handle 6V and some can go to 7.2V and higher. I would not like to rely on the internal BEC of a quadcopter optimised flight controller.

I have just installed a Matek F405-CTR which power-wise looks the same as the F722SE. I didn't buy it specially but I had it lying around and so used it, and it was frankly a real pain. I had to install a separate BEC for the servo and I now have interference on my video because it has no stabilized/filtered 12V output for the VTX. I'm going to need to fit another external gizmo to fix this. And there's not much room in a Mini Tri if you want to get the battery inside the frame. If I were upgrading again I would seriously consider a wing FC. Some of them have remote USB sockets and they all have standard 30.5mm mountings so you can stack them with other stuff.

With that said, if we want to use Triflight then we are all in the hands of Jihlein who is currently the only one with the both the knowledge and inclination to make targets for us. So perhaps target availability is the deciding factor for which board to use.
Oct 28, 2020, 10:42 AM
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KaffiFlight's Avatar
Thank you for your input and thoughts. Ok then... I will check how I can manage to fit a Matek wing-FC into the small frame. Letīs see.
Right now I am about to use INAV, since I have some experiences with it on planes and is has some pretty reliable RTH-functions, wich is what I want. I like to fly low and sometimes sh.t happens.
Oct 28, 2020, 10:10 PM
Registered User
I’m no expert with the F722, but it appears to have less flash than the F745 (512 vs 1024). The Triflight code does not fit in the F722, so if you want that feature, I’d look for a different flight controller.
Oct 29, 2020, 02:34 AM
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KaffiFlight's Avatar
Okay, I understand. Itīs the same problem with INAV and Arduplane capable FCīs, since Ardu needs at least 1MB. I read about that.
But I realized another limiting problem: A non-square FC does not fit inside the BG-TriLR unless you drill new mounting holes further to the front. Without that it blocks the rear standoffs of the frame.
Maybe I will find a friend in my home-forum (fpv-treff.de) that can print an adapter for me that will also do the job. I will either try to make the 405wing or the 411wse (smaller mounting holes) fit into the frame. Because I have them here and buying something new does not really seem to bring me much further. Both needs adapters. I understand the 411 can just run INAV or Betaflight without any extras, the 405 can do all, but is bigger.
Thank you for the input.
Last edited by KaffiFlight; Oct 29, 2020 at 03:14 AM.
Oct 29, 2020, 04:28 PM
Registered User
"Flight was less than stellar, yaw needs some serious help"

Well as the saying goes, haste makes waste. In my rush for a test flight before the snow set in, I was tuning yaw in the wrong direction, decreasing yaw P instead of increasing it. Same for yaw I. Duh! It flies fine now, there's no issue with the 4.2.4 merge....
Oct 30, 2020, 02:54 AM
Registered User
Tean's Avatar
LOL. That's almost as daft as suggesting a FC that doesn't have enough memory.
Oct 30, 2020, 08:17 AM
Gravity is patient............
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tean
I think most people would agree that a tricopter tail servo leads a hard life and its performance is critical to getting a decent feeling tail. A 5V 2A BEC is at best marginal and you're going to miss out on the extra performance that a higher servo voltage can provide. Pretty much all modern servos can handle 6V and some can go to 7.2V and higher. I would not like to rely on the internal BEC of a quadcopter optimised flight controller.

I have just installed a Matek F405-CTR which power-wise looks the same as the F722SE. I didn't buy it specially but I had it lying around and so used it, and it was frankly a real pain. I had to install a separate BEC for the servo and I now have interference on my video because it has no stabilized/filtered 12V output for the VTX. I'm going to need to fit another external gizmo to fix this. And there's not much room in a Mini Tri if you want to get the battery inside the frame. If I were upgrading again I would seriously consider a wing FC. Some of them have remote USB sockets and they all have standard 30.5mm mountings so you can stack them with other stuff.

With that said, if we want to use Triflight then we are all in the hands of Jihlein who is currently the only one with the both the knowledge and inclination to make targets for us. So perhaps target availability is the deciding factor for which board to use.
I am using a torq (CL0508) high voltage servo on my LR's tail. I use a CC 10A bec at 8.4v to power it. I simply connect the bec to the open motor power pair on the PDB (since we only use 3 motors). It's a great setup, but requires a very large D term to keep the servo jitters away, I guess due to it's quick nature.
Nov 02, 2020, 02:19 PM
Gravity is patient............
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by jihlein
I’m no expert with the F722, but it appears to have less flash than the F745 (512 vs 1024). The Triflight code does not fit in the F722, so if you want that feature, I’d look for a different flight controller.
Wow really? I was looking at the 722 with the graphic OSD (722-px) that would be nice for the pitch ladder and horizon line. Too bad!
Nov 06, 2020, 07:00 AM
Registered User
KaffiFlight's Avatar
Hello there... I have question that might seem to be a bit non-smart, well, but I need to clarify some things for me to perfectly understand what we are talking about, or maybe better, to clarify that I really understand things right about the software.
The Triflight code: How exactly does it work (with?) Cleanflight or INAV? Is it embedded into some versions of the software? And jihlein has done this job for some versions and some dedicated flightcontrollers?
Nov 08, 2020, 05:15 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by jihlein
Well given that, here's a couple of targets for BetaFlight 4.2.4. I tried this over the weekend on a KakuteF7 in the RCE Mini Tri. Had some setup issues which I was finally able to resolve. Flight was less than stellar, yaw needs some serious help, but ran out of the good weather window. I don't think it's anything with the code, so it will be interesting what you guys find with the attached files.

@jihlein this supports the F405-STD too ?

Edit: Installed on STD and thus far no issues. (Betaflight / MATEKF405 (MKF4) 4.2.4 Oct 25 2020 / 19:33:51 (norevision) MSP API: 1.43) Thinking that the bench / in-flight tail-tune is the same as what David was using?

Thank you!

1SB
Last edited by 1Smug_Bastard; Nov 08, 2020 at 05:41 AM.
Nov 08, 2020, 06:54 AM
Registered User
@jihlein would a F7 compatible version of the above firmware be possible?

Reason I ask is that I am considering updating my old Tri-Mini by replacing the F3 mainboard with a 3D printed one. This would also all for the area to be customized for several different form factors of FC. Being that F7 has less issues dealing with inversion, I though I'd take the leap to F7.
Nov 08, 2020, 07:20 AM
Registered User
Tean's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiFlight
The Triflight code: How exactly does it work (with?) Cleanflight or INAV? Is it embedded into some versions of the software? And jihlein has done this job for some versions and some dedicated flightcontrollers?
I think that is roughly correct.


I've been flying on the Beta4.2.4 Triflight Matek target provided by Jihlein and it's all working. I copied my 4.1.1 settings into it and they seem to work fine except I had to increase the tail rate a bit.
Nov 08, 2020, 07:51 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tean
I think that is roughly correct.


I've been flying on the Beta4.2.4 Triflight Matek target provided by Jihlein and it's all working. I copied my 4.1.1 settings into it and they seem to work fine except I had to increase the tail rate a bit.
I concur...

Just need to tweak in a few things but overall its WAI.

Example: I forgot to disable all the feedforward settings and I saw a fair bit of oscillation as a result. Took about a minute to get the tail tune to complete. No idea if the tune was valid however as the beeper was really hard to hear. Would suggest adding a Boolean flag into the code that indicates "true" if tune was good. (Defaults to false otherwise)

Quote:
Tri-Tune values from 1st attempt:
tri_unarmed_servo = ON

tri_dynamic_yaw_minthrottle = 100

tri_dynamic_yaw_maxthrottle = 100

tri_dynamic_yaw_hoverthrottle = 639

tri_motor_acc_yaw_correction = 6

tri_motor_acceleration = 18

tri_servo_angle_at_max = 400

tri_servo_feedback = RSSI

tri_servo_max_adc = 2904

tri_servo_mid_adc = 2163

tri_servo_min_adc = 1335

tri_tail_motor_index = 0

tri_tail_motor_thrustfactor = 78

tri_tail_servo_speed = 370
Last edited by 1Smug_Bastard; Nov 08, 2020 at 10:41 AM.


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