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Apr 02, 2021, 11:57 AM
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My current all time favorite. Sig LT-40 with a gas stinger 10cc side exhaust. A 6 oz tank is 30 minutes flight time. This one was a crashed carcus given to me. I scratched out a wing, repaired the fuse and all is good. It took putting the elevator servo in the tail to balance. A single battery with a tech-aero ibec for the ignition. Flys nice and slow and light.
Edwin
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Apr 05, 2021, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin1
My current all time favorite. Sig LT-40 with a gas stinger 10cc side exhaust. A 6 oz tank is 30 minutes flight time. This one was a crashed carcus given to me. I scratched out a wing, repaired the fuse and all is good. It took putting the elevator servo in the tail to balance. A single battery with a tech-aero ibec for the ignition. Flys nice and slow and light.
Edwin
I like that idea. I've got a PT40 kit still in the box that I've been thinking of modding for a while. Zero dihedral, add flaps, convert to tail dragger, and widen fuselage. Maybe even a different airfoil even. A gas engine would be a fun add too ... if nothing else just for novelty of it.
Apr 05, 2021, 10:26 AM
Registered User
This experiment began out of necessity and is the culmination of 4 years of trial and error. Im the club instructor. About 35% of my students are wet power. Theres not a lot of options out there. I converted two different. 40 size glow trainers, neither worked out very well. They flew heavy. Next was a PT60. It was ok but the builder built the aft section too heavy. Even with a gas engine and two batteries, had to add another 8oz over the engine to balance. Im sure one can be built lighter and work. A 70" ws seems to work best for wing area and lift. The LT-40 worked best so far.

The engine needs to be a side exhaust stinger 10cc. They have the best out of box performance. Ive got two 10cc and three 15cc.
The ngh was a total waste of money and time. I needed an engine suitable for beginners and has to work out of the box. The ngh 9gt pro is weak on power and not reliable enough out of the box. The side exhaust 10cc stinger gives you access to the needles when the cylinder is upright. You just flip the carb. Cant do that with a rear exhaust engine. You have to run it cylinder down which exposes the spark plug to accidents. The motor mount has to be modified for easy throttle linkage access. (See pic) The bottom half inch of motor mount has to be cut off and relocated. Throttle linkage passes right through the old motor mount hole. This gives a nice easy straight shot from servo to carb throttle arm.
Edwin
Apr 13, 2021, 08:08 PM
They call me Lipo...
Justwingit's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin1
My current all time favorite. Sig LT-40 with a gas stinger 10cc side exhaust. A 6 oz tank is 30 minutes flight time. This one was a crashed carcus given to me. I scratched out a wing, repaired the fuse and all is good. It took putting the elevator servo in the tail to balance. A single battery with a tech-aero ibec for the ignition. Flys nice and slow and light.
Edwin
NICE Edwin !!!

Very cool that you saved this one...makes it that much more special to see it flying again !

Apr 13, 2021, 09:10 PM
They call me Lipo...
Justwingit's Avatar

Hobbyzone Super Cub LP...


An all time CLASSIC for sure !
Hobbyzone Super Cub LP at the Playa in Newberry Springs (11 min 34 sec)


Although she's clearly not fuel, MANY RC pilots earned their wings with this one...

Nov 15, 2021, 03:46 PM
Registered User
Midwest Aerostar 40.
Nov 24, 2021, 01:34 PM
Valkrider
My first RC build in 1980 was a Northeast Aerodynamics Train-Air .40. Easy to build and cover. Took a lot of abuse but built very strong. I still have some of these kits in my stash that I keep as backups. I have one on the workbench now that I’m converting to dual aileron servos and electric power. Takes a bit of modification on the fly but still pretty close to the original plans.

ARFs we’re not very common back then and it seems like many have learned on ARFs. I have quite a few of these but I always return to building from kits when time permits.

The best trainer is whatever works for the individual. Everything else is just opinion.

Good luck…
Last edited by valkrider; Nov 24, 2021 at 01:43 PM.
Dec 10, 2021, 08:44 PM
Registered User
My first R/C build in 1970 was a Tri Squire with a Supertigre 23 Engine. I joined a local club and was able to solo that first year. The trainer of choice with the club instructors at that time was the Andrews H-Ray. It flew great and was as tough as an old rubber boot. That was my second build and it flew for many years with an Enya 19. Great memories.
Dec 11, 2021, 10:27 AM
Mmm...castor smoke....
This is gonna sound really really wierd, but from the two dozen or so aircraft I've flown?

Tower Hobbies Kaos 40 ARF.


Yes. A Kaos 40. A low wing classic pattern ship. Hear me out on this one.

I built mine with a Magnum 52 4-cycle engine and an 11-7-3 prop on it. My radio lets me set up triple rates, so I did exactly this; the recommended low rates became mediums, highs were still highs, and I knocked 20% off the recommended lows for the actual lows. I also kept my build as light as possible; the thing weighs just 5lb1oz barely even within the weight range on the instructions.

On high rates itt'l do anything you'd ever want a Kaos to do. On medium rates it's a beautiful weekend sport plane. On low rates it's as docile as a newborn kitten. It lands like a dream, it just floats around, the stall speed is barely even high enough to make note of, it stalls gracefully, it does what it's told without any hysterics or issue. I have mine set up for buddyboxing a newbie where I can control the rate switch and ensure they don't kick it into aerobat mode...or where I can bump it up a bit if I feel the student pilot is progressing sufficiently quickly that it's time to start learning basic aerobatics like loops and rolls. 'Bout the only thing it doesn't do that a traditional trainer does do is passively level itself out, but that's...meh not really as big a deal as many make it out to be.

I learned on a NexSTAR 46 myself. Not a bad bird, but it had its quirks, especially on 4-cycle power(Fun fact I removed the engine from this to power my Kaos!) where it just did not want to land. Ever. It would float along at 2500RPM level as can be! I also have an RCM Trainer 60 on hand, K&B 61 for power, but that thing can be a bit spicy at times(It's actually better at inverted flight than my bloody Kaos is go figure).

Tower Hobbies Kaos 40 flight! (8 min 12 sec)
Some flight footage. This thing really is a doll in flight and I would without a second thought hook up the buddybox and train a newbie on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin1 View Post
This experiment began out of necessity and is the culmination of 4 years of trial and error. Im the club instructor. About 35% of my students are wet power. Theres not a lot of options out there. I converted two different. 40 size glow trainers, neither worked out very well. They flew heavy. Next was a PT60. It was ok but the builder built the aft section too heavy. Even with a gas engine and two batteries, had to add another 8oz over the engine to balance. Im sure one can be built lighter and work. A 70" ws seems to work best for wing area and lift. The LT-40 worked best so far.

The engine needs to be a side exhaust stinger 10cc. They have the best out of box performance. Ive got two 10cc and three 15cc.
The ngh was a total waste of money and time. I needed an engine suitable for beginners and has to work out of the box. The ngh 9gt pro is weak on power and not reliable enough out of the box. The side exhaust 10cc stinger gives you access to the needles when the cylinder is upright. You just flip the carb. Cant do that with a rear exhaust engine. You have to run it cylinder down which exposes the spark plug to accidents. The motor mount has to be modified for easy throttle linkage access. (See pic) The bottom half inch of motor mount has to be cut off and relocated. Throttle linkage passes right through the old motor mount hole. This gives a nice easy straight shot from servo to carb throttle arm.
Edwin
I would have gone with a Saito FG-13 and a 10oz tank on the build myself if I was to do a gasser LT-40 build. That'd give something like 3-4 hours of endurance on a single fillup while training a newbie.

For a while I had been planning an LT-40 build to use for instructing as I wanted to be one of my club's instructors. WAs gonna use a 52 glow 4-stroke on it. Then an RCM Trainer 60 just fell into my lap(Literally; was given to me at a club meeting by its builder who had learned on it 45 years ago!) and I've got a couple of other birds in my collection that I feel are docile enough to buddybox someone with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep36 View Post
Midwest Aerostar 40.
As long as it's built right. I have an Aerostar 40 and...well, first mistake the builder made was using an OS 40FP. Reliable as can be, but it did not have enough power. Had to be pinned nearly 3/4ths of the way open just to fly at all. Second mistake, they converted from rubber band wing retention to dowel-and-bolt retention but failed to reinforce the windshield area appropriately. I went for a loop on the second flight, something a basic 4-channel trainer should be able to do(And something both my NexSTAR and RCM Trainer 60 do easily), and the wing tore out as soon as it got pointed straight up. Signposted the fuselage in the riverbed.

I've since repaired it but it's never been in the air again. Currently hangs on my wall disassembled and stripped for parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justwingit View Post
Could THIS be a good first time trainer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOo1...t=3s:confused:

She's certainly mild mannered.... !

Having flown a bipe myself, I'd be somewhat hesitant to try to train a total novice on one. That being said, the Tiger Moth and the PT-17 Stearman were both used as such for manned aviation in decades past(And may still be used as such to this day in some areas!), so if there was an RC bipe that could do the trick that's the two to use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cratecruncher View Post
The best Primary Trainer a pilot can own is......

a computer FLIGHT SIMULATOR!

You can fly when it's raining, fly at night, crash it and hit a button repairs it good as new! The best part is you can try risky stuff and crash, and crash, and crash, until you get it right, Most people play video games and are totally familiar with a simulator. I've seen students that never flew an airplane before solo in less than an hour after practicing on a simulator.
I vehemently disagree on this. While sims are an excellent thing to have, there are certain inaccuracies in them that mean they are not a substitute for actual flight time.

I learned to fly on a Hobbico NexSTAR 46. I know pretty well what they can and cannot do. Inverted flight, knife edge are right out. Rolls are slow and wonky, but doable. Loops, stall turns are easy. Real Flight ALSO has this aircraft in it, and in RF I can fly inverted, fly in knife edge, hell damn near hover the bloody thing in the sim.

They're great to have to supplement flight instruction but they are not a substitute

Quote:
A Kaos makes a good advanced trainer after some stick time in the simulator. The Kaos has a huge wing that will slow landings to a walk and yet can do any trick short of knife flight when you're ready. Why waste time building a boring high wing box that floats all over the sky? Life is short. Get on with it!
I will agree that a Kaos can be used as a trainer, and I will extend it to say it can be used as a primary trainer if it's set up properly and buddyboxed. I have my Kaos 40 set up as such; triple rates with low rates being docile cruise trainer mode and it's confirmed working on my buddybox setup. Being one of the club instructors for my flying field, there's a non-zero chance a total novice might learn to fly on a Kaos having never touched a high-wing.

That being said, high-wings can be spicy bois. I have an RCM Trainer 60 as well, another gem off Joe Bridi's desk, and...well if I'm perfectly honest this thing is better at doing Kaos things than the Kaos I have is. I also maintain it for buddyboxing newbies, but I may not always have it in the car and my club is wanting to make it easier for people to learn to fly by removing the whole 'call an instructor and arrange this and that' runaround. Rather, we want it to be a case of 'newbie pops in, pokes an instructor, gets some training'.

I want to have several aircraft set up for buddyboxing. My Kaos and my Trainer 60 are already on the list. I'll be maidening a VMAR AeroSubaru 40 tomorrow; if it proves to be suitably docile I will probably set that up for training people as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fix-n-fly View Post
+1 - I trained on a Sig LT-40 with a OS Max .40 FP. The instructor who taught me didn't think the .40 FP would be enough engine, but it fooled him. It was plenty of engine and pulled that 70" wing around with ease. It wouldn't climb straight up, but that is not needed in a trainer.
I would argue it isn't enough power either. Yes, you can get away with a lot less engine on a trainer than most other models, but having flown a trainer that size on an OS 40FP I can say it just isn't enough power.


Having to keep it at 3/4ths throttle is a sure sign that it's just not enough power. For a trainer I'd like to see cruise flight be at 40-50 percent, not 75.

An OS FS48 or FS52 Surpass with a 11-7-3 or 12-7-2 prop would be bloody perfection on a Kadet LT-40. Cruise flight at something like 30-35% throttle. A 12-6-2 prop would get the revs up a little and help with landing...my NexSTAR didn't want to stop flying even at 2500RPM on a 52 4-c with an 11-7-3 prop...but with the 7" pitch prop cruising at 30-35% throttle it's an easy 30-45 minutes aloft on a tank of glow fuel.

Quote:
I still like that plane along with the LT-25 and the Sig Senior Kadet even though I've been in the hobby for about 35 years. Want to see what a Sig Senior Kadet can do? Check this out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xeScXZf2bE Want something different? A Sig Senior Kadet with a bit of kit bashing - Check this out - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3OvJkAtNA
I'm diggin' the low wing Kadet Senior! SIG should sell them like that as well.
Last edited by C6 Aviation; Dec 11, 2021 at 10:37 AM.
Dec 29, 2021, 09:37 AM
Registered User
My first trainer was a Pilot QB40T and although quite rare these days I thought it was a great trainer. It has a semi symmetrical wing and it was bolt-on which gives it a cleaner look but the downside is more potential damage from mishaps.

Unfortunately, I lost it during a roll, it got nose low and I pulled instead of pushed on the elevator.

My second kit was a Midstar 40. A bit more aerobatic but still had trainer like qualities.
Dec 29, 2021, 11:36 AM
Registered User
There is a huge difference between what is best for training with no or minimal instruction and what is best for a long period on the buddy box.

I have a strong preference for trainers that can be flown very easily with minimal instruction. The sooner the student pilot starts flying on his/her own, the better, because that person can fly any time and not be constrained to times when an instructor is available. I think it's more motivating too, at least for most people.

For buddy box flying, power can be helpful, I suppose. But I have seen inexperienced pilots get into dangerous trouble from too much power. They bump up the throttle a little and suddenly the plane gets out of their control. Having a lot of power is like having high rates on the throttle.

More important than the power is the weight of the plane. I've never had an Aerostar, but lots of trainers fly really well on an OS 40 FP, and in fact, should not have more power than that for training purposes. I have trained students on planes powered by the OS 40 FP or LA (about the same) and if they got too low over the trees, or headed toward the trees, I could get them out of trouble easily. That's because the trainers were not heavy.
Jan 09, 2022, 06:05 PM
Registered User
burlesontom's Avatar
One of the guys I trained built a PT-40 and put the extra high dihedral in his wing and powered it with an FP-40. Back then there were no buddy boxes, at least didn't have any. We just passed the box back and forth. He did learn to fly in just a couple of weeks. He had a a few small mishaps like rough landings but all were repairable. And repairable by him because he actually built his own plane.

I about 3 months after soloing he bought as OS FS.60 and a Joss Stick kit. He built and I test flew it for him and then he flew it. That was a good flying plane until he giy cocky doing low inverted passes at high speed and forgot that up is down. And that was the end of that plane.

Next was a Long John. That plane would have made a decent trainer and was sure enough and excellent second plane. He doesn't fly anymore but I bet somewhere he still has that plane in storage.


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