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Jan 14, 2020, 11:58 AM
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Brushless setup


I am finishing up a 14" ws depron waco current weight is 23g
what brushless motor and setup would be best?
motor esc, rx for throttle, rudder and elevator
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Jan 14, 2020, 12:50 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
You can get this complete system :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1881...16cb1e56y8QJAZ that direct drive motor/prop will work well for medium-fast flying . If you want slow flying , I recommend getting this gearbox motor ( select GPS C10 1404 from the menu ) : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3279...4db6509f9oRRSL

For RX , you'll have to get a lightweight RX compatible with your transmitter protocol .
Jan 14, 2020, 01:16 PM
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coriolan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by balsa or carbon
You can get this complete system :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1881...16cb1e56y8QJAZ that direct drive motor/prop will work well for medium-fast flying . If you want slow flying , I recommend getting this gearbox motor ( select GPS C10 1404 from the menu ) : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3279...4db6509f9oRRSL

For RX , you'll have to get a lightweight RX compatible with your transmitter protocol .
All that stuff is oversized for a 14" span/23 grams Waco.
Jan 14, 2020, 01:48 PM
hdowding
Quote:
All that stuff is oversized for a 14" span/23 grams Waco.
Way oversized. Something like this combo is closer to what I think you need:

https://www.overskyrc.com/ap03-7500k...6lg5mnc8eonjl0

I'm not suggesting that you necessarily get that particular combination, which Oversky says weighs about 15 g. Since you are using RTE, you can save the weight of one servo, 1.5 to 2 g. Going to a 150 mAh LiPo might save a little more. I don't think you'll readily (or inexpensively) find a much smaller, lighter receiver. But that combo seems a good benchmark starting point for putting together the electronics you'd want. If you're willing to solder and to look around for the lightest commonly available servos (e.g. 1.5 g rotary servos), you might be able to get the package weight down to 10 g. (Since I'm old and lazy and willing to pay money to save time, I'd actually probably try out this Oversky combo.) 33 to 38 g all-up weight for a 14" wingspan biplane is reasonable, though not necessarily slow-flyer territory. The experts in this forum can give you better suggestions, but I offer my 2 cents for a ballpark estimate.

Harvey
Jan 15, 2020, 05:28 AM
Registered User
RNAF's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdowding
Way oversized. Something like this combo is closer to what I think you need:

https://www.overskyrc.com/ap03-7500k...6lg5mnc8eonjl0

I'm not suggesting that you necessarily get that particular combination, which Oversky says weighs about 15 g. Since you are using RTE, you can save the weight of one servo, 1.5 to 2 g. Going to a 150 mAh LiPo might save a little more. I don't think you'll readily (or inexpensively) find a much smaller, lighter receiver. But that combo seems a good benchmark starting point for putting together the electronics you'd want. If you're willing to solder and to look around for the lightest commonly available servos (e.g. 1.5 g rotary servos), you might be able to get the package weight down to 10 g. (Since I'm old and lazy and willing to pay money to save time, I'd actually probably try out this Oversky combo.) 33 to 38 g all-up weight for a 14" wingspan biplane is reasonable, though not necessarily slow-flyer territory. The experts in this forum can give you better suggestions, but I offer my 2 cents for a ballpark estimate.

Harvey
Good point Harvey and I agree, I have learned to take the easy way since in practice and tenths of grams are generally not noticed. I used to go as far to solder everything but it's just so much hassle. Especially if you "use" airframes a lot and swap over electronics.

What's also possible:
- MA-RX42E-F2+ Oversky's 4ch RX with built in brushless 5A ESC. It only weighs 1,50 grams (they say it's 1,25 but I'm allowing for a power cable).
- HK-5320S . Add two of those (recently I am a convert, don't like linears so much anymore).
- AP03 4000kv Brushless motor, around three grams. kv Depending on prop, for a 14" I suppose a 4" or 4.5" would be nice.

At Oversky it'd be $50 plus 5$ flat rate shipping. Two HK micro servos 6,5 total ex. shipping.
So about 60 you have a proven setup that's easy to use. This setup weighs 8,5 grams. Battery is another discussion but Harvey's 150mA is an excellent choice so you'd be at 12,9 grams. Add a 23 gram model and you're at 35 grams AUW.

If your model is draggy (full-fuselage) and you want a bit more power, you might want to up to a brushless motor in the five gram range with a 5" prop. If the cowl is not that big, a higher kv with a 4,5" prop could do too.


Sorry for O/T but do you have a picture? I love Wacos!
Jan 15, 2020, 07:43 AM
Registered User
sirpercy's Avatar
gone
Last edited by sirpercy; Jan 15, 2020 at 01:41 PM.
Jan 15, 2020, 07:49 AM
Registered User
RNAF's Avatar
For a 14” 23+ gram model? Are you sure? Have you actually read OP’s context? Those actuators are for a six gram plane.
I’m not sure if you’re helping him to successfully completing his project but sending him off-track wasting time and money. But that my opinion..
Jan 15, 2020, 09:22 AM
Registered User
Thread OP
Thanks all for your suggestions. I found an AP05 motor in my parts box I may try and use.
Jan 15, 2020, 11:26 AM
Registered User
Petefoss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiflyerk
I am finishing up a 14" ws depron waco current weight is 23g
what brushless motor and setup would be best?
motor esc, rx for throttle, rudder and elevator
I guess I'm old school but I'd just go with a 1S Spektrum geared brushed setup in that size range. Usually about $20-30 used at swap meets in a flyable airframe. I have some I bought years ago as organ donors that I still fly.
Jan 15, 2020, 01:04 PM
AMA 1042906
swimmer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiflyerk
Thanks all for your suggestions. I found an AP05 motor in my parts box I may try and use.
You haven't given enough info. You have to say what transmitter you are using before any recommendations can be given. I've built a number of foam planes for indoor flight and if I knew your transmitter I could give you some recommendations.

-----------------------------------------------------

Providing you are using a Spektrum transmitter: Here is a plane in RCgroups classifieds. Everything you need here for $40.00 plus shipping. Strip out parts you need and install in your plane.


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...ect-flys-great
Last edited by swimmer; Jan 15, 2020 at 01:15 PM.
Jan 15, 2020, 03:30 PM
Registered User
My recommendation is the same as RNAF I was actually going to post the exact rx esc combo and say to use the rotary servos. The only difference is I would say use a micro quad motor they can be had much cheaper than the ap series and with the advent of 2-4s micro quads there's plenty with good kv for a plane on 1s.
Jan 16, 2020, 12:01 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by microwhoop
My recommendation is the same as RNAF I was actually going to post the exact rx esc combo and say to use the rotary servos. The only difference is I would say use a micro quad motor they can be had much cheaper than the ap series and with the advent of 2-4s micro quads there's plenty with good kv for a plane on 1s.
The AP05 performs very similarly to many "1105" class motors but can't take anywhere near the voltage; however, it is also substantially lighter. The quad motors are designed to run tiny propellers (2.5-3") at preposterous speeds on very high voltage. The AP03 is similarly an 1103 or close to it; it's roughly ~80% of the weight of similar motors and a good choice for sub-30g models. (Shame about the bonkers price, though.);

Gear one of the quad motors down and you have an enormous thrust-to-weight ratio.

I just purchased a ~5"x1.7" (not a typo!) prop from a Mini Vapor, which should allow one of the tiny motors to swing a larger, more efficient prop without bogging down the motor.
Jan 16, 2020, 09:15 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead
The AP05 performs very similarly to many "1105" class motors but can't take anywhere near the voltage; however, it is also substantially lighter. The quad motors are designed to run tiny propellers (2.5-3") at preposterous speeds on very high voltage. The AP03 is similarly an 1103 or close to it; it's roughly ~80% of the weight of similar motors and a good choice for sub-30g models. (Shame about the bonkers price, though.);

Gear one of the quad motors down and you have an enormous thrust-to-weight ratio.

I just purchased a ~5"x1.7" (not a typo!) prop from a Mini Vapor, which should allow one of the tiny motors to swing a larger, more efficient prop without bogging down the motor.
The thing is there really isn't a difference between a motor made to spin a small prop on high voltage vs a bigger prop on lower voltage. The weight thing is an issue though considering most the quad motors are made to take a beating they're gonna be heavier. I do know happy model motors are usually lighter than most in my experience.
Jan 16, 2020, 09:41 PM
Ego varius quis.
Cheesehead's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by microwhoop
The thing is there really isn't a difference between a motor made to spin a small prop on high voltage vs a bigger prop on lower voltage. The weight thing is an issue though considering most the quad motors are made to take a beating they're gonna be heavier. I do know happy model motors are usually lighter than most in my experience.
There are a few differences - the AP05 performs much better than most motors near its' size on a larger (5") prop, and 3000kv motors under six grams are fairly rare. I have been warned that using the AP05 on 3 cells is a terrible idea - but most quad motors are designed for 3s or 4s use.

The AP03/7000kv weighs in at about 3.1g. The Happymodels 1103 weighs over 4g with stock leads. On a small enough model, one gram matters.

That said, a rewound (~4600kv) Racerstar BR1103 tested as outperforming both these motors on a 5x3 prop - about 40g of thrust on only about ~1.7A. The 3000kv AP03 is really more appropriate for 2s.
Jan 17, 2020, 04:02 PM
Registered User
Ya 3000kv isn't big in the micro quad market but, I'm willing to bet a 4500kv 1103 would swing a 5in and probably produce a decent amount of power but, you are right the ap03 is the better choice from a weight perspective.


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