Originally Posted by flyboy52

If you are not here to contribute to the purpose of this thread then take your comments somewhere else. We have many younger modelers who we fly with and are very accomplished at what they do whether flying fixed wing or multirotor aircraft but they are also respectful of others and their interests too. We have a common battle to fight against over regulation. That can just as easily occur with ground based RC as it can with flying models. Now we need to focus on how to collectively respond to the problem at hand.

OP needs to change the name of this thread to "Let's fight ABOUT the FAA Model RID NPRM!"

Originally Posted by scott page

OP needs to change the name of this thread to "Let's fight ABOUT the FAA Model RID NPRM!"

Best post in this whole thread!

Originally Posted by DC1138

LOL!! I haven't owned a video game system since the 80s. I'm probably younger than you, but hardly "young".

Incidentally, it's those sorts of comments from the "older RC modelers" that tend to not only drive others off, but give us little reason to be at all sympathetic to your current situation.

If you are not here to contribute to the purpose of this thread then you should save those comments for another time. We have a common battle to fight against over regulation. Now we need to focus on how to collectively respond to the problem at hand.

Originally Posted by flyboy52

If you are not here to contribute to the purpose of this thread then take your comments somewhere else. We have many younger modelers who we fly with and are very accomplished at what they do whether flying fixed wing or multirotor aircraft but they are also respectful of others and their interests too. We have a common battle to fight against over regulation. That can just as easily occur with ground based RC as it can with flying models. Now we need to focus on how to collectively respond to the problem at hand.

Indeed. It looks as though some heads are coming together, because people are beginning to realize what's at stake. The more we can brainstorm on the FRIA sites, and convincing the FAA that broadcast RID rather than a complicated direct connect to the internet from the aircraft its self, is a far more sensible approach. I have a ways to go before I can formulate a decent response, but much of my commenting will be in direct support of aerial photographers, traditional RC hobbyists, Part 107 license holders, FPV enthusiasts, and all others who are wrapped into all this. I can understand the interest in aerial package delivery using autonomous vehicles, but I will strongly disagree with the infringement of the rights of others who also enjoy using the national air space. Including myself.

Much like zoning commissions and committees restrict big corporations from fouling public lands and polluting the environment, I feel that it is the public's responsibility to put a lid on what can easily become a public nuisance by large corporations like Google and Amazon. Namely, delivery drones that may make for a quick order of cheap pizza at the expense of others who work hard for what they earn, and want a bit of piece and quiet. I don't think I would appreciate delivery drones at all hours of the day and night, any more than I do boom cars and loud mufflers. At the same time, I want friends and neighbors to be able to enjoy what I have to offer with my hobby, to continue my strive in improving my personal relationships.

We shall all work on this together. I may not be a traditional modeler, but I do have an brand new ARF that has yet to be built. If I can get support from my local club, then I will plan on rejoining the AMA to get back into the hobby. We need all the help we can get.

Guys, I have been preoccupied for a while, but I will soon be going thru all posts and deleteing those that do not contribute in a positive way.

Lets keep this thread to productive ideas for fighting this NPRM, please.

I've been saying that in order to win this game we not only need to mount a good defense of what we currently have, but we also need to go on the offense and pop the delivery drone bubble that's the motivation behind all of this.

With that in mind I've just created a Petition which will be sent to all governors, President Trump, Amazon, and others. Frankly - they may ignore it and some (most) probably will. However -- we need to flank the enemy and hit them from all sides.
It's my hope that some of you will find this a positive contribution to the issue and jump on this -- posting to your FB - or wherever else you can. I'd like to enlist the general public - not just modelers in this fight and I believe this is one way.
The link is http://chng.it/vHFsxJyQft (text below)

If you disagree -- don't sign the petition. If you agree please help me blow up the internet with resistance.
Please don't allow this post to hijack the thread. Please don't discuss it's merit or lack thereof here. It's the best I could do -- and to some it will be flawed -- but it's better than nothing. The site will likely hit you up for a donation. There are better places to put your money. All I'm asking for is support.


Prohibit Commercial Drones from operating over private property or residential areas <400'


A number of business are endeavoring to create Unmanned Arial Systems to deliver packages. While we're not opposed to new opportunities afforded by advanced in technology, these opportunities must not impinge on the individuals safety, security, comfort, privacy, or property.

The sound of Drones, their physical presence agitating livestock, domestic pets and residents as well as the danger of having them fall from the sky over private property are in direct conflict with ad coelum doctrine which, from common law, states that a property owner owns not only the plot of land but also the space above the plot.

In United States v. Causby

The court held the public's right of flight does not extend downward to the earth's surface. finding "if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere. Otherwise, buildings could not be erected, trees could not be planted, and even fences could not be run" …“The fact that he does not occupy [space] in a physical sense -- by the erection of buildings and the like -- is not material. As we have said, the flight of airplanes, which skim the surface but do not touch it, is as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it.

Commercial Drones or UAS must not be allowed to operate over private property or residential areas. To do so is a violation of property owners property, security, comfort, privacy, and safety.

Originally Posted by scott page

I've been saying that in order to win this game we not only need to mount a good defense of what we currently have, but we also need to go on the offense and pop the delivery drone bubble that's the motivation behind all of this.

With that in mind I've just created a Petition which will be sent to all governors, President Trump, Amazon, and others. Frankly - they may ignore it and some (most) probably will. However -- we need to flank the enemy and hit them from all sides.
It's my hope that some of you will find this a positive contribution to the issue and jump on this -- posting to your FB - or wherever else you can. I'd like to enlist the general public - not just modelers in this fight and I believe this is one way.
The link is http://chng.it/vHFsxJyQft (text below)

If you disagree -- don't sign the petition. If you agree please help me blow up the internet with resistance.
Please don't allow this post to hijack the thread. Please don't discuss it's merit or lack thereof here. It's the best I could do -- and to some it will be flawed -- but it's better than nothing. The site will likely hit you up for a donation. There are better places to put your money. All I'm asking for is support.


Prohibit Commercial Drones from operating over private property or residential areas <400'


A number of business are endeavoring to create Unmanned Arial Systems to deliver packages. While we're not opposed to new opportunities afforded by advanced in technology, these opportunities must not impinge on the individuals safety, security, comfort, privacy, or property.

The sound of Drones, their physical presence agitating livestock, domestic pets and residents as well as the danger of having them fall from the sky over private property are in direct conflict with ad coelum doctrine which, from common law, states that a property owner owns not only the plot of land but also the space above the plot.

In United States v. Causby

The court held the public's right of flight does not extend downward to the earth's surface. finding "if the landowner is to have full enjoyment of the land, he must have exclusive control of the immediate reaches of the enveloping atmosphere. Otherwise, buildings could not be erected, trees could not be planted, and even fences could not be run" …“The fact that he does not occupy [space] in a physical sense -- by the erection of buildings and the like -- is not material. As we have said, the flight of airplanes, which skim the surface but do not touch it, is as much an appropriation of the use of the land as a more conventional entry upon it.

Commercial Drones or UAS must not be allowed to operate over private property or residential areas. To do so is a violation of property owners property, security, comfort, privacy, and safety.

I clicked on the link, but got a "server misbehaving" error. I will try again later, however.

Google " FAA ANPRM 2 13 2019 sUAS "

This is the genesis of the NPRM. Note that sections are followed by "Questions for the Public". If you read the questions, you'll see where our comments on the NPRM should be focused.

I don't know what happened between the ANPRM, Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) and NPRM steps, but the FAA got answers to some of these questions really wrong for our community. AMA and DJI were apparantly present but not heard in this process.

We need to be looking at the Federal rulemaking process to understand how to play their game to fight this.

Google " FAA.GOV Rulemaking "

The results of the ARCs can be found at:
" UAS ID ARC Final Report with Appendices.PDF"

We've got our homework to do. Arguing among ourselves won't get us what we want. Its time to fight the NPRM the smart way.

If you have other such documents, please post them.

I don't understand ,how can the FAA receive responses especially from organizations like the AMA and just arbitrarily choose not to recognize and incorporate them? If they have the right to just ignore feedback or relegate it to just being a footnote in their document there isn't a lot of hope that they will take any suggestions into consideration and incorporate them in the final ruling. If they are a government agency shouldn't they be required to fairly consider responses and feedback they receive?

That would be a good question for Tyler Dobbs at AMA, or someone at the FAA. IIRC, they were "filed in the docket".

Has anyone tried calling the FAA? I saw the video from CES that Flite Test put up, the FAA was represented by Danielle Corbett.

Originally Posted by erospawn

So..the FAA is responsible for the world wide economic collapse that's coming in the future? There's not a lot of demand for cars and boats...and plastic models have gown up in price and they've become harder to find. After all this, the hobby industry as whole will most likely suffer greatly...and by the time it's over, it will video games or whittling wood.

From working in the retail end I can tell you your wrong there. R/C cars and trucks outsell flying models 10 to 1. As far as plastics we sell a ton of them every day. The air end is where we're suffering it's been on the decline for about 7 years now. It's not due to the lack of places to fly as we have 3 great feilds in town with very reasonable dues. The decline isn't due to regulation but the interest just isn't there anymore. I look around the fields I visit and we're getting older and older.

Mike

Originally Posted by mike2663

From working in the retail end I can tell you your wrong there. R/C cars and trucks outsell flying models 10 to 1. As far as plastics we sell a ton of them every day. The air end is where we're suffering it's been on the decline for about 7 years now. It's not due to the lack of places to fly as we have 3 great feilds in town with very reasonable dues. The decline isn't due to regulation but the interest just isn't there anymore. I look around the fields I visit and we're getting older and older.

Mike

Maybe where you are... where I am, Cars and boats are not big sellers. The only track for rc cars is over an hour away. Drones and flying things are and Gunpla or whatever that is.

Originally Posted by erospawn

Maybe where you are... where I am, Cars and boats are not big sellers. The only track for rc cars is over an hour away. Drones and flying things are and Gunpla or whatever that is.

I'm basing what I said on the fact that I'm involved in the retail end. Now I speak with others frequently in the retail end and various suppliers daily and from their feedback it seems to be a national trend. Of course your mileage may vary. As a FYI 99 % of R/C cars and trucks are sold to "bashers" not racers. Guys who play in their yards and so on. The whole "sponsored" driver trend has driven many away for the tracks.

Look at what Horizon kept and what they dumped after they acquired Tower. Pages and pages of R/C cars and trucks for various manufactures. No so much in the air end.

"Gunpla" is Gundam models, as well as the hobby of assembling and painting them, is known in Japan as Gunpla. Their a strange but harmless bunch of characters..

Mike

Gunpla.... I'm such a Nerd....

Originally Posted by mike2663

I'm basing what I said on the fact that I'm involved in the retail end. Now I speak with others frequently in the retail end and various suppliers daily and from their feedback it seems to be a national trend. Of course your mileage may vary. As a FYI 99 % of R/C cars and trucks are sold to "bashers" not racers. Guys who play in their yards and so on. The whole "sponsored" driver trend has driven many away for the tracks.

"Gunpla" is Gundam models, as well as the hobby of assembling and painting them, is known in Japan as Gunpla. Their a strange but harmless bunch of characters..

Mike

Why try when someone is always better? The other problem was when I tried to set up a course for RC car racing, no body wanted to be bothered with the discipline of keeping their vehicles on the track. They just wanted to go where ever they wanted to go. That didn't last very long and everyone quit showing up. Last, but not least, ground vehicles are a bottomless money pit. Now there are tons of used vehicles and out dated parts for sale. Some of those who came in my shop to try to sell whatever they had, I finally got them into RC flying. They are still flying and buying.