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Dec 20, 2019, 11:54 PM
DWA
DWA
1Corinthians 13:1-8
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*** V-Coptr Falcon ***


This got my attention.
Introducing V-Coptr Falcon from Zero Zero Robotics (1 min 20 sec)




What do you guys think?


~Dave
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Dec 21, 2019, 02:26 AM
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Interesting, but highly skeptical of the claimed flight time and video transmission distance. Basically those claims are 80 percent or more higher than the most efficient consumer drones on the market, which raises both eyebrows. Also.. gears? Gears are synonymous with friction and waste heat. I have serious doubts about these kinds of claims.
Dec 21, 2019, 08:20 AM
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It does look very cool! But I am also a bit skeptical about the usage of gears, though. Interesting concept nevertheless. Its about time that someone is rocking DJIs boat.
Dec 21, 2019, 08:41 AM
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ekkostar's Avatar
Looks very different and exciting. Could be quite interesting

The main motors appear to brushless and the servo gears appear to control the angle of attack.

Given it's only 2 prop I can see that extended flight time being possible
Dec 21, 2019, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekkostar
Looks very different and exciting. Could be quite interesting

The main motors appear to brushless and the servo gears appear to control the angle of attack.

Given it's only 2 prop I can see that extended flight time being possible
2 servos and 2 brushless motors with propellers. Definitely more than enough to fly, and fly well. There are quite a lot of designs for drones using only 2 motors and servos, none commercially available, though

And definitely more efficient than a quadcopter. Actually, a traditional helicopter is even more efficient, even if there are losses due to the complex mechanical linkages

50 minutes theoretical max is not unreasonable, if they want to invest in a big enough battery. Most commonly sold drones could carry more weight than they are carrying currently, so could use bigger batteries. Probably around 40min real flight time, not that far from newer drones, and entirely possible due to the higher efficiency

As usual, the real problem for them will be to produce and sell them at a profit. With DJI covering the upper part of the market, cheap Chinese drones covering the ~$300 market (Zino and similar) and the Skydio offering incredible obstacle avoidance, the price range of this is pretty narrow (around $999). Which is very, very hard to hit and still make enough profits to bootstrap a new company, distribution channels, support, etc

EDIT: They seem to have a presale special price going now https://zerozerorobotics.com/shop/pr...select-product, but there's no reason for most people to invest in an unknown company and unknown drone with a future delivery data

Incidentally, their track record is as worrying as expected https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...t-flies-itself the previous drone was funded at the end of 2018, promised for March 2019, and still not available. Comments are interesting, too

For now I'll pass. I have a rule: any drone offered for crowdfunding is by definition a bad deal. So far there is basically zero examples of successfully crowdfunded drones, and an unending series of abysmal failures (e.g. Plexidrone, Zano and many more). Anyone with enough credibility and ability to design a successful drone will have plenty of VCs willing to fund them. The ones offered on crowdsourcing platforms are the ones that VCs passed on. It never ends well

At best, by the time those ship, there are better and cheaper commercial drones already available. At worst, they fail miserably and people either get horrible half assed prototypes (starting from the https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...l-flying-robot, https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/k...-auto-follow#/ and follwed by most others) or nothing at all (Plexidrone, Zano, etc)
Last edited by robca; Dec 21, 2019 at 05:16 PM.
Dec 21, 2019, 05:55 PM
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is this new too ?

https://zerozerorobotics.com/hover2
Dec 21, 2019, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanedi
Nope. Funded one year ago, supposed to ship by March 2019, not available yet (it's the Kickstarter link I provided in my previous post). The company does not have any positive track record, just negatives
Dec 21, 2019, 08:14 PM
DWA
DWA
1Corinthians 13:1-8
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I will definitely be keeping my eye on this one. We will see what happens.


Dave
Last edited by DWA; Jan 26, 2020 at 10:01 PM.
Dec 22, 2019, 01:54 PM
Registered User
Looks interesting, but I lost that interest just as soon as I read that it doesn't offer 4K at 60fps.
Dec 26, 2019, 09:43 AM
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Pixelpeter's Avatar
Just stumbled across this on Youtube. Interesting concept, but wouldn't even consider (pre)ordering this rather unproven concept from an rather unknown company.

As others already mentioned I too have my doubts about those geared motors; looks a bit too delicate to me especially when things go wrong (clipping a branch or something). Claimed flighttime? I really doubt that.

But open minded as I am, I cannot wait to see the actual thing fly and anxious to see its output


SPECS:

Aircraft

Folded Dimensions:220.6 X 148.26 X 72.38 mm (length width height)
Weight:730 g
Max Hovering Time:Up to 50 min
Max Wind Scale Resistance:Grade 5
Operating Temperature:0 ℃ - 40 ℃
Operating Frequency:2.4 GHz
GNSS:GPS + GLONASS
Internal Storage: 8 GB Max Capacity of External microSD Card: 256 GB

Gimbal

Stabilization:3-axis gimbal
User Control Range (Pitch):-90~0

Obstacle Avoidance

Max obstacle avoidance speed: 7 m/s

Camera

Sensor:1/2.3" CMOS; Effective Pixels: 12 MP
Lens:FOV About 773; Equivalent Focal Length: 28 mm; f/2.2
ISO:Video: 100 ~ 6400 Photo: 100 ~ 6400
Max Image Size:12 MP
Still Photography Modes:Single Shot; Burst Shooting; Self-Timer Shooting
Video Resolution:4K: 38402160 @ 30 fps 2.7K: 27201530 @ 30/60 fps 1080p: 19201080 @ 30/60/120 fps 720p: 1280720 @ 30/60/120 fps
Photo Format:JPEG; RAW (DNG); RAW+JPEG
Video Format:MP4

BlastOff Controller

Max Control Distance:7000 m
Battery Time:2.5 hours

Intelligent Battery

Capacity:4500 mAh
Voltage:15.4 V
Energy:69.3 Wh
Weight:329 g
Operating Temperature:0 ℃ - 40 ℃

Charger

Output:17.6 V - 3 A; 5 V - 2 A
Power:~ 56 W
Charger Input:100 V-240 V, 50 Hz – 60 Hz

A quick look at the actual craft in flight and a look at its (rather large) transmitter:

V-Coptr Falcon from Zero Zero Robotics, 4K Camera Drone (2 min 5 sec)
Last edited by Pixelpeter; Dec 26, 2019 at 09:53 AM.
Dec 26, 2019, 11:32 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pixelpeter
Just stumbled across this on Youtube. Interesting concept, but wouldn't even consider (pre)ordering this rather unproven concept from an rather unknown company.

As others already mentioned I too have my doubts about those geared motors; looks a bit too delicate to me especially when things go wrong (clipping a branch or something). Claimed flighttime? I really doubt that.
Those are not geared motors. The gears you see are the servos tilting the motors (in order to control a drone with only 2 motors, you need to tilt the rotors, a bit like what happens on a tricopter where the motor on the tail tilts to produce yaw, in this case more complex obviously). The actual motors are brushless. Long flight time is perfectly achievable, with a big enough battery and the additional efficiency of having only 2 propellers. If the company could build it, that is

And the company is not unproven: it's proven to have missed the original delivery date for their first product by almost a year, and started building another drone in parallel. What could go wrong?
Dec 26, 2019, 05:46 PM
Registered User
Pixelpeter's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robca
Those are not geared motors. The gears you see are the servos tilting the motors (in order to control a drone with only 2 motors, you need to tilt the rotors, a bit like what happens on a tricopter where the motor on the tail tilts to produce yaw, in this case more complex obviously). The actual motors are brushless. Long flight time is perfectly achievable, with a big enough battery and the additional efficiency of having only 2 propellers. If the company could build it, that is

And the company is not unproven: it's proven to have missed the original delivery date for their first product by almost a year, and started building another drone in parallel. What could go wrong?
You're correct, I shouldn't have said 'geared motors' but 'geared tilt motors'
Jan 02, 2020, 10:58 AM
Registered User
V-COPTR FALCON (0 min 16 sec)

V-COPTR FALCON 12月19日发布会 (0 min 15 sec)
Jan 06, 2020, 07:15 PM
Registered Fanatic
Awesome concept! *IF* such a design can be perfected & mass produced, it would result in a much cheaper craft than traditional quad copters.

So, what is the "down side" to this design? Compared to a quad rotor. Any thoughts?

And, is there any reason this design couldn't be scaled down in size? IE, under 250 grams?
Jan 07, 2020, 01:10 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by NordicMan
Awesome concept! *IF* such a design can be perfected & mass produced, it would result in a much cheaper craft than traditional quad copters.

So, what is the "down side" to this design? Compared to a quad rotor. Any thoughts?

And, is there any reason this design couldn't be scaled down in size? IE, under 250 grams?
It's not necessarily cheaper. Brushless motors are cheap, precision servos are delicate and might actually end up costing more than a brushless motor. So trading off 2 brushless motors for 2 servos is not necessarily a cost saving measure.

Scaling down is harder, once again due to the mechanical complexity.

Flight dynamic and wind resistance are also unknown, The V copter has a bigger area exposed to wind, and might not be as stable. Unlike a quad that is pretty much symmetric, so wind impacts it uniformly across a 360 rotation, the V copter design will have different wind resistance effects depending on the wind direction. On a windy day, you do a 360 yaw with a quad and nothing happens. With the V copter, during a 360 yaw the wind effects keep changing and require constant corrections.

The main downside right now? The company behind it has an history of promising without delivering.


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