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Dec 21, 2019, 07:59 AM
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Perhaps it depends on the hybrid:

https://afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/how...tric-cars-work

What is the max current the aux battery charging system can provide?
Last edited by Ohmic; Dec 21, 2019 at 08:10 AM.
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Dec 21, 2019, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
No, with the hybrid you have a powerful instant-on genset on standby at all times.

Tap into the 12V circuit do what you like with it, anything under a couple thousand watts no problem, soon as the computer sees charging is needed the gennie starts, once no longer needed turns off, like that.

You could fast-charge hundreds of packs from a litre or two of fuel without breaking a sweat. Compare to the energy required to push that car around, even camping in Death Valley keeping the aircon and heating cycling 24x7, only limit is not running out of fuel!

If you wanted a bigger "staging" battery in between, fine? but all that does is lengthen the pause-time between cycles, completely optional, really unnecessary in fact no advantage.

Someone with such a sophisticated setup would not be lugging around some big old heavy FLA anyway when they've got all these lithium packs around, the key is being able to absorb the kWh output quickly and lead just doesn't cut it for that, you'd be wasting 90% of the power produced due to the higher resistance.
Of course, you're still limited to ~500W which is what most chargers put out with a 12v input.
Dec 21, 2019, 09:27 AM
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Why be limited if you are a couple of Killowatts ?


Do a cell voltage check to make sure they are all at about the same volts. My A123 are always within .010 volts of each other. That would allow massive amp input & a cell volt check rvery 10 minutes to keep track of a sluggish cell if it appears.
Dec 21, 2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohmic
Of course, you're still limited to ~500W which is what most chargers put out with a 12v input.
Pull that out of a hat? most far less, many lots more

More accurately put

"if you leave it at 12V then that may limit your charger's total output"

and as I said a DC converter can feed it whatever voltage you like from the car generator
Dec 21, 2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
Pull that out of a hat? most far less, many lots more

More accurately put

"if you leave it at 12V then that may limit your charger's total output"

and as I said a DC converter can feed it whatever voltage you like from the car generator
No. "~" = approximately and I was talking about max charger power output. Which RC chargers are putting out lots more than 500W with a 12v input?

You can saw whatever you want, but DC-DC converters have limitations as well.

Sorry for the confusion, but by "most chargers" I was referring to high power chargers. Obviously, some chargers don't out 500W regardless of input voltage.
Last edited by Ohmic; Dec 21, 2019 at 12:45 PM.
Dec 21, 2019, 12:52 PM
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Each charger has its specs, silly to try to generalize. Some are just a couple hundred watts, some over 2000W.

Personally I consider 500W tiny.

Whatever power is needed, a hybrid EV's generator will provide it.

Certainly more than using 12V lead Starter batts, which is the norm in this use case.

Whatever input voltage is needed to get **your** charger to the power output **you** need, is easily provided with DC converter arrays, just a question of paying for them.
Dec 21, 2019, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
Pull that out of a hat? most far less, many lots more

Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
Each charger has its specs, silly to try to generalize. Some are just a couple hundred watts, some over 2000W.

Personally I consider 500W tiny.

Whatever power is needed, a hybrid EV's generator will provide it.

Certainly more than using 12V lead Starter batts, which is the norm in this use case.

Whatever input voltage is needed to get **your** charger to the power output **you** need, is easily provided with DC converter arrays, just a question of paying for them.
I was not generalizing, I was stating fact. Most high power chargers (PowerLabs, iChargers, etc.) are limited to ~500W with a 12V input. Still waiting for examples of the "many lots more" you stated...unless you pulled that out a hat?
Dec 21, 2019, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
Whatever input voltage is needed to get **your** charger to the power output **you** need, is easily provided with DC converter arrays, just a question of paying for them.
And efficiency isn't a concern.
Dec 21, 2019, 01:19 PM
Registered User
I was not disputing the limitation of a 12V input.

Feels like you're just arguing for the fun of it, long after the OP has been addressed.

My point is that that limitation is not a factor for the overall use case, easily overcome when greater power is required, there is no need to limit yourself to a 12V input.

I've seen rigs that use a ~300Vdc backbone to avoid power losses over long distances (avoiding 200lb cables)

which concurrently provide 48V, 24V, and 12V ranges

as well as 3-5V for 1S cell level maintenance protocols

at the point of load.

Where there's a will there's a way.

Also expo truck pulling a RAV4 toad, mostly as a portable genset for off-grid living, plus a great source of heat and aircon when needed.

The EV was not just conveniently OTS but **cheaper** than cobbling together an integration of all those systems

so its functionality for convenient transportation for resupplying the campsite was basically a freebie additional benefit. . .
Dec 21, 2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohmic
And efficiency isn't a concern.
All the DCDC converters I've seen are over 96% efficient if you size the ampacity to the load properly.

But you're right that's not at all an issue here with ICE power on tap,

only with a rig striving for green mostly-solar usage.
Dec 21, 2019, 04:24 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
I was not disputing the limitation of a 12V input.

Feels like you're just arguing for the fun of it, long after the OP has been addressed.

My point is that that limitation is not a factor for the overall use case, easily overcome when greater power is required, there is no need to limit yourself to a 12V input.

I've seen rigs that use a ~300Vdc backbone to avoid power losses over long distances (avoiding 200lb cables)

which concurrently provide 48V, 24V, and 12V ranges

as well as 3-5V for 1S cell level maintenance protocols

at the point of load.

Where there's a will there's a way.

Also expo truck pulling a RAV4 toad, mostly as a portable genset for off-grid living, plus a great source of heat and aircon when needed.

The EV was not just conveniently OTS but **cheaper** than cobbling together an integration of all those systems

so its functionality for convenient transportation for resupplying the campsite was basically a freebie additional benefit. . .
I was only informing the OP of the limitations of a 12v system. While DC-DC converters are an option, I've been on this forum for many years and can't recall anyone ever going that route. While many often try the alternative solutions, sooner or later most serious hobbyists end up with a Honda/Yamaha inverter generator and a power supply which is simple, reliable, and cost effective for those active in the hobby and flying later packs.
Dec 21, 2019, 04:49 PM
Registered User
And **completely unnecessary** for those with an EV hybrid like OPs, which is the whole point of this thread.

Like living off grid in an Alaskan winter and thinking you need to run an electric freezer.

If OP doesn't even want to buy an extra battery - which it is indeed not needed - then they certainly don't need to buy and lug around all that impedimenta.
Quote:
first law of holes: "if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging"
Last edited by John61CT; Dec 21, 2019 at 04:55 PM.
Dec 30, 2019, 05:27 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by rampman
Zeeb, please note there are 2 batteries in a Toyota Hybrid. 12 volts and approximately 250 volts.
These are completely isolated from each other and tapping into the NiMH Hybrid Vehicle (HV) battery is very difficult for the exact reason you pointed out.
He will be fine doing as planned

Rick
Zeeb just loves throwing out that he is a firefighter, jet fighter pilot, astronaut, nuclear physicist, to name a few.
Dec 31, 2019, 07:07 AM
Registered User
Personally I'd buy a REAL car. Or better yet a REAL truck!
Dec 31, 2019, 09:39 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by John61CT
And **completely unnecessary** for those with an EV hybrid like OPs, which is the whole point of this thread.

Like living off grid in an Alaskan winter and thinking you need to run an electric freezer.

If OP doesn't even want to buy an extra battery - which it is indeed not needed - then they certainly don't need to buy and lug around all that impedimenta.
How much current can the 12v subsystem in the Prius provide?


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