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May 22, 2005, 12:12 AM
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oldpilot's Avatar
ROFLMAO

Paddy.
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May 22, 2005, 06:18 AM
Does it come in Flouro??
Numb Thumbs's Avatar

New Videos


Two new videos of the EasyGlider on the website. One is of aerobatics at the club flying field in calm air and the other is from today sloping in 20 to 25 knots of bouncy air at Kilcunda Ridge, one of our favoutie sloping sites. The sloping video is with the plane unballasted.

The sit eseems a little unstable so you may want to try "Save Target As.." and watch it once you have downloaded it.

Cheers

Numb Thumbs
May 22, 2005, 09:03 AM
Plank Owner 107
Belly Up's Avatar
Just recived my Easy Glider.

Qustion about glue. I have 30 and 40 min epoxy, the intructions say to use medium-viscosity cyano and activator. They say in the instuction that epoxy bond is only superficial and it breaks away under load. I have crash some planes (okay alot of planes) and the epoxy joints have held up fine, every thing not epoxied broke.

So the qustion is will epoxy work on EPP are do I have to go with the cyano glue??
May 22, 2005, 09:24 AM
Registered User
Epoxy is not the best choice for Elapor. Creativ UHU, doublesided tape and PU are alternatoves to epoxy in this application.
May 22, 2005, 09:42 AM
Plank Owner 107
Belly Up's Avatar
I disagree with you rutat. Read the test below and you will understand why I disagree.

EPP test results added

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the test results using the most commonly recommended adhesives for EPP foam. I glued balsa blocks to a piece of white EPP foam, of the type I've seen used is several kits. After letting the glues dry for 24 hours, I pulled the balsa blocks off the foam. I was surprised at how much force was required to pull some of these joints apart.

1. Thin CA: reasonably strong joint. Fast and easy to apply. Fast cure.

2. Epoxy: strong joint. Easy to apply. Must hold parts together while glue drys, but some epoxy cures in as little as 5-10 minutes.

3. UHU glue: Weak joint. Apply to both parts, allow to dry for 10 minutes and joint parts. Note: some people have reported good results with UHU, but my test produced a weak joint.

4. Elmer's Ultimate polyurethane glue: Outrageously strong joint! Dampen one surface, apply glue to other surface and joint parts. Hold in place while glue dries, which can take up to 3 or 4 hours. I think all PU (polyurethane glues) would produce similar results.

5. Household Goop. Reasonably strong joint: Apply to both surfaces, let dry for a minute or so and join parts. I was surprised the Goop joint wasn't stronger. A lot of people use Goop because it stays very flexible. There may be better ways of applying it than this one.

Conclusion: CA, epoxy, PU and probably GOOP too, all have their places in EPP foam assembly.
Attached Thumbnails
Last edited by Belly Up; May 22, 2005 at 09:56 AM.
May 22, 2005, 10:15 AM
Registered User
Interesting test. Isn't EPP foam different than ELAPOR foam? If so, does that difference need to be accounted for in the test?
May 22, 2005, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belly Up
Just recived my Easy Glider.

Qustion about glue. I have 30 and 40 min epoxy, the intructions say to use medium-viscosity cyano and activator. They say in the instuction that epoxy bond is only superficial and it breaks away under load. I have crash some planes (okay alot of planes) and the epoxy joints have held up fine, every thing not epoxied broke.

So the qustion is will epoxy work on EPP are do I have to go with the cyano glue??
Belly Up,

I'm confined to a wheelchair and very spastic so using nearly instantly adhering CA is out of the question for me.

I've put about every type of foam there is together with 1 hour epoxy thinned about 25% with alcohol.

I found early on that epoxying foam with a shiny surface wasn't a very wise choice so I've experimented over the past years roughing the foam surfaces to be joined with sand paper. If you sand Elapor, EPP, or about any other type of foam with about 180 ~ 220 grit it becomes very fuzzy feeling and when looked at under strong magnifier it just looks like short cat hair.

I have never used 5 minute epoxy, even on small areas, since my spasticity hardly lets me work with 15 minute epoxy. One hour epoxy makes a joint you can't pull apart. The foam rips apart any where other than where epoxied and when the epoxy is thinned and used in thin application it adds very little weight to the surface in comparison with about any other adhesive.

Just my 2 cents worth,
Jim
May 22, 2005, 12:46 PM
Princess Rue
PrincessRue's Avatar

i's always something...


well - rebuilt ez v1.0 - some of the seams needed regluing - needed to pull off the tape layers, glue instead of double sided tape the horiz/vert stabs, etc...

it's all dry and ready to go today - i thought...

my receiver is toast now! its a hitec 555 - i think i might have fried it last night by reversing the polarity on channel three throttle plug.

KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OF THE INSIDE OF THE PLANE IFFEN YOU'RE BUZZED.

Not you - me. I gotta yell these things at myself from time to time...

oh well - hobby store here i come...

Rue
May 22, 2005, 12:54 PM
Plank Owner 107
Belly Up's Avatar
Hi Constantcrash,

I admire how you have overcome your restrictions and keep on modeling.

In my book it is very cool.

I'm building the easy Glider with a broken finger so I know a little bit about making do with what you have.

As far as the difference between EPP and Elplor, I do not know but will do a search.

Constant crash idea about sanding and rough up before glueing make good sense.

But it is a done deal this Easy Glider is going together with epoxy, it will be crash tested for sure and I'll let you guys know what broke, the epoxy joint or the elpor with no epoxy. My money is on the elpor will break and the epoxy will hold.
May 22, 2005, 12:55 PM
Registered User
Elapor is a proprietary mix of EPP and EPS - about 70/30.
May 22, 2005, 12:58 PM
Plank Owner 107
Belly Up's Avatar
The glue test is not mine.

It from rcmann. Here is the link to his glue test fourm.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...11#post3785433
May 22, 2005, 01:05 PM
Plank Owner 107
Belly Up's Avatar
Okay Rue,

What glue did you use?

Stop inhaling the cyano fumes!!!
May 22, 2005, 10:46 PM
Registered User
oldpilot's Avatar
RUTAT.

You are almost right. Elapor and Arcel are 70% styrene (EPS) and 30% polyethelene (EPE) EPP is expanded polypropylene, which is difficult to mould.

Elapor is very mouldable and is best glued with CA. It is not quite as resistant to some solvents as EPP, but is stiffer. Altogether it is the best compromise for mass production of model airplane parts as MULTIPLEX have found out and are taking advantage of. Other manufacturers have access to the same technology, but seem to have dragged their feet on this one.

Perhaps Multiplex hold the patent on the Elapor recipe.! I don't know.

Cheers. Paddy.
May 23, 2005, 12:12 AM
Registered User
Sorry - you are correct. I've answered this a couple of times now and slipped an E for a P. Or the other way round. Arcel is Nova Chemicals' mix; Elapor is the Euro equivalent. And it not restricted to MPX.

Elapor glues very fine with Creativ UHU for those that eschew CA. You can even use water based contact cement! As for its properties, I'd expect them to be similar to Arcel: Comparable in performance to expandable polypropylene (EPP) & expandable polyethylene (EPE).


Other mfgs like Robbe have been using Arcel for ages, BTW.
May 23, 2005, 12:17 AM
urs
urs
Registered User
Epoxy glue????
Any Epoxy tests must be done over a long time ....apparantly it changes the bond over time maing the epp...elapor ect mushy...only time will tell
urs


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