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Dec 11, 2019, 11:44 AM
a.k.a VintageFan
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Power setup


Iíve been using Powerline 1015 or 1025 with 3S for some time now an I am interested if anybody has suggested alternatives.

Looking for a bit more power without a weight penalty. Maybe stick with Powerline and just go to 4S?

Frank
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Dec 11, 2019, 12:03 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Hi Frank. What is the weight of the plane (+max ballast) that you want for this? And do you have a target weight for the motor+gearbox?
Dec 11, 2019, 12:04 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
You can’t just go to 4S, Frank. Your motors are capable of producing only so many watts of power. If you up the volts by going to 4S, you’d better be prepared to go down in prop size or you’ll likely cook the motor or ESC. That’s not to say you can’t eek out a little more power from your motors but based on what I’ve seen from the F5J crowd, you’re probably already pushing your motors pretty hard. Proceed with caution...
Last edited by Mr. Wiz; Dec 11, 2019 at 12:14 PM.
Dec 11, 2019, 12:20 PM
a.k.a VintageFan
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude
Hi Frank. What is the weight of the plane (+max ballast) that you want for this? And do you have a target weight for the motor+gearbox?
Chris. I want to stay around 100g for the motor. Looking at up to 65oz AUW with ballast

Frank
Latest blog entry: Images
Dec 11, 2019, 12:23 PM
a.k.a VintageFan
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
You canít just go to 4S, Frank. Your motors are capable of producing only so many watts of power. If you up the volts by going to 4S, youíd better be prepared to go down in prop size or youíll likely cook the motor or ESC. Thatís not to say you canít eek out a little more power from your motors but based on what Iíve seen from the F5J crowd, youíre probably already pushing your motors pretty hard. Proceed with caution...
I dunno, Iím pretty sure there are people out there using the 1025 with 4S 650mah setups

Iím interested in any other options
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Dec 11, 2019, 12:33 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
PowerLine 1025 has been used with 4S, of course with a smaller prop.
It is a lot easier to get good power for all of 30 seconds with 4S because the required current is lower so batteries can provide it easier.
While officially rated for 500 W, it will probably be fine with 550 W or maybe even 600 W for short times.

Frank, if you are buying a new motor, and want to switch brands (and save some money), many Volo pilots use this motor (either the 3770 Kv or 4200 Kv version) with 4 cells.
I have pushed it to 600+ W for all of 30 seconds without issues. More than enough for a heavy ballasted plane in winds.
https://www.reisenauer.de/aid-2272-T...n-5-1NL-T.html
https://www.reisenauer.de/aid-2271-T...n-5-1NL-T.html
Dec 11, 2019, 12:52 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
Which Kv motor and prop do you like best on a ballasted plane, Oleg?
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Dec 11, 2019, 12:58 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Campbell
Chris. I want to stay around 100g for the motor. Looking at up to 65oz AUW with ballast
Frank
Okay. For those requirements I recommend 4S with the Tenshock EDF EZ-1515-15T + Reisenaur Micro Edition 5:1 gearbox. The motor is rated at 480w max, 42A max.This combo weighs an actual 105.5gm. The gearbox is rock solid and the motor has been reliable. iCare has these on sale.

For your 65oz max weight the most efficient prop of all I have tested is the RFM 16x8.5 slim. With a Hyperion 4S 850mAh 70C battery that will give you starting power of 530w at 39A (power drops quickly as usual when the plane gets moving). If you want to use different props I may have test data for them. Also, if you are interested I can show you in-flight telemetry of voltage, current, and power for that combo in a 65oz windy plane.
Dec 11, 2019, 04:06 PM
Registered User
Tuomo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Campbell
Iíve been using Powerline 1015 or 1025 with 3S for some time now an I am interested if anybody has suggested alternatives.

Looking for a bit more power without a weight penalty. Maybe stick with Powerline and just go to 4S?

Frank
I have run 1025 and 1015 with 4s for more than a year. Very happy with performance and like olgol, no issues at all. You can start with 13x8 propeller and see how it works.

Power difference between 3s and 4s is considerable. Yet weight difference is next to nothing if you substitute 850 3s pack with 650 4s.

Also Reisenauer has good motors. Personally I have been very happy with Leopard 4s setup.
Dec 11, 2019, 04:21 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
Which Kv motor and prop do you like best on a ballasted plane, Oleg?
I have been using the 4200 Kv version.
12x6 Aeronaut props, or 12x8 GM props
13x8 GM props for a heavy plane
Dec 11, 2019, 04:27 PM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
I use the Tenschock 1515 15T with a GM 13x8 prop on 4S and it’s fantastic. I pull around 600 watts with my 3s650mah battery. Its a very efficient setup.
Dec 11, 2019, 05:10 PM
a.k.a VintageFan
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoaringDude
. Also, if you are interested I can show you in-flight telemetry of voltage, current, and power for that combo in a 65oz windy plane.
Iíd be interested in seeing those.
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Dec 11, 2019, 05:40 PM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
I use both the 10shock/reisenauer and the powerlines 1025 on 4S. The 10shock motor is my standard setup but I have the powerlines in one model. I switched the powerline that I was running with a 3S wind/kv over to 4S and its just fine although the gearbox makes a different sound.

The reisenauer gearbox is a 6mm shaft compared to powerline 5 mm and the ten shock/reisenauer setup costs less in Australia than the Powerline. If buying another it would be the 10shock/reisenaur combo.

Finally you can get the Powerlines which is actually a Lehner motor in a custom wind if you want.

So if you have a "storm" model that you plan to ballast over 2 kg then I believe some pilots go to as much as a 6S setup and you can get a wind for that.

Equally as you are in the States I am sure there is an excellent Neu motor/gearbox combo. Steve Neu has been supporting the electric part of the RC model community for many years and makes excellent motors.

When you have the more powerful setup you need to be better with throttle management so as not to go too high and to be able to feel the download air
Dec 11, 2019, 07:36 PM
Registered User
We just received the first batch of 1105 series Neu motors with the new P22 gearbox. They weight 100g. Far more power than a 1025. They are a now a 3y instead of a 2.5y, per the new 5.8 reduction. These are good for 3s, or 4s.
Dec 11, 2019, 08:44 PM
NorCal Electric Soaring (NES)
SoaringDude's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Campbell
Iíd be interested in seeing those.
Frank, I'm emailing you the Taranis log file for this.

This is data from my Xplorer 4m windy plane recorded earlier this year that I shared on our NorCal Electric Soaring club email list. AUW 64oz with a Tenshock 1515-15T motor, RFM 16x8.5 slim prop, and a 4S 850mAh Hyperion G7 battery. Plane uses a YGE-65LVT ESC set to fixed endpoints: 1800uS full pwr, 1200uS zero pwr. The ESC telemetry data (voltage, current, computed power, RPM, etc) was logged on my Taranis TX running OpenTX. Altitude was also logged.

INITIAL BENCH TEST: (via a computer-controlled thrust bench): At 1740uS of throttle control a 3-second run yielded (an average) 613W, 41.5A, 14.79V under load. The motor is rated at 480W/42A continuous max, assuming you keep the motor safely cool.

IN-FLIGHT TEST: (Refer to the graph below) At the same throttle level and in windy conditions (15mph gusting 20 on ground):
A - at 12:11:10 started the launch for a run upwind at low altitude (30m)
B - at 12:11:22.5 started a very steep 75-80 degree climb
C - at 12:11:30.5 cut motor power. Total motor run time = 20.5 secs.
D - at 12:11:36 the zoom was completed at 136m.
Now look at what happens to the in-air power:
aa - at 12:11:10 power starts at 612w
bb - at 12:11:13 power has dropped to 500w, a safe continuous power level for this motor given that F5J launches are so short.
cc - at 12:11:18 power has dropped to 400w. Keep in mind this is flying essentially flat and level at 30m.
dd - at 12:11:23 I started the steep climb at which point the power rises more or less steadily.
ee - at 12:11:25 the power had climbed to 500w and then more or less leveled off even though the plane was still in a steep climb.
One reason for sharing this is to show that saying a motor runs at a single power level with a given prop and battery is not very helpful to understanding what your motor actually does in the air. Even with a larger prop the number of seconds where you see peak power is quite small unless you plan to launch your plane near-vertical for long motor burns .

Hope this helps!
Chris


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