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Jan 27, 2020, 12:41 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
If you are ever interested in high performance high speed flight , then I would recommend getting a store bought plane . I have tried to scratch-build high performance high speed planes , but they were no match to the store bought equivalent . Here is my attempt at scratch building a HK SkyFun , but it would only go about 70mph ..... compared to the 100+ mph of the store bought SkyFun with equivalent electronics .




Dollar Tree foam board SkyFun ( ish ) (4 min 6 sec)
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Jan 27, 2020, 01:34 PM
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Hey guys! Yes the ft models are foamboard designs. I imagine they have some level of intellect behind them too. Otherwise I think theyd have been called out on it haha!

Gotta live that Florida weather! If you can believe it, it was 28* the morning before I made this video. So cold that my well pressure switch froze and began overrunning the fill valves in my toilets!! Bad news on septic!!! I awoke to gurgling sounds!

I’m probably going to buy a pre built plane soon. I think it will likely be an edge 540 or something similar. I THINK what I’d want is a sport plane. In my mind a sport plane is acrobatic, 4 channel, and relatively powerful with a reasonable speed envelope? The edge is just the one that happened to be the most visually appealing to me

It sounds like you guys all have had a couple store boughts. I remember some being linked in the thread. I’ll go back and look. I don’t recall any being full fuse though. Any recommendations one a particular brand or place to visit to look at them? It seems like everyone makes an Edge but I’m sure the quality varies significantly. As always, thanks so much to everyone for helping me grow in the hobby!

I forgot about the landing gear haha! I keep taking it off to fly slow!!! Weight savings!! Actually my first plane the FT Scout had gear and I got pretty good at driving it around the driveway and taxi’ing it. Unfortunately that plane didn’t survive my learning process. I can’t say I ever really flew it on purpose. I’d get it in the air and it would look like a pinball for a few seconds and crash! The arrow plane had gear on it too the first two flights but it took off in like a foot so I didn’t see the point haha.
Last edited by Topher01; Jan 27, 2020 at 01:43 PM.
Jan 27, 2020, 03:05 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
A lot of the seriously aerobatic models with really big control surfaces will not be able to fly all that fast. Flutter you know.... Not a good thing.

If you want fast and groovy and big high power "jet" like full sky loops and really fast passes then you want models that are thin, clean, overpowered and generally they will benefit from using thin but "proper" airfoils. And for all that the pusher jet style models with the motors on the tail LOOK like the business the fastest for the watts into them are the sort that look like pylon racers. Putting the prop at the back or in the middle like your Rey means that the props are often eating disturbed airflow. And that really cuts into their efficiency.

Do a web search with your favorite search engine for "electric power pylon racer" and look at the prop style models that are overall the fastest going. They frequently look a bit like slightly stubby gliders. But that is with good reason. Truly fast models get out of visual range REALLY fast if we let them. So to keep them within reasonable visual range we're doing turns of some sort at least half the time. These might be half loops with rolls or it may be actual turns or combinations. But either way we're doing big open turns that STILL generate a high G load. Now short stubby wings at higher G causes more drag than longer skinny wings. So fine, make a BIGGER delta, right? Not quite. The bigger stubby wing to lower the wing loading has a lot of "wetted area" which sticks to the passing airflow and slows the model down more than needed. So the designs that sort of look like "glider puppies" are actually some of the least draggy designs out there. And along with those are the semi scale models that look like thinner stretched versions of some scale models. An example being THIS RACING MUSTANG. And when over powered and given a high pitch prop will reach some rather silly speeds and perform really impressive big power maneuvers and spine chilling high speed passes.

On the other hand things like Edge 540's are typically at their best flown at lower to moderate speeds. And keeping an ever tuned ear for the sounds of flutter.

A nice compromise is any number of nicer sport models that tended to use moderate size controls to mitigate the flutter issue to a reasonable degree and can be pretty good for higher speeds yet slow down and do nice snap roll based maneuvers too. A few options are;

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=8042
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=11010 (this one could be a nice size for your flying area)
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=7210
http://shop.balsausa.com/product_p/443.htm (a bit large and intended for bigger glow engines but a good flying design. Something like this a little smaller could be a nice all around flyer)

Models like this fly fairly fast and with enough power do nice big zoomy jet style maneuvers but they also slow down and fly in closer quite well too. Not 3D in your face style close in but pretty well.
Jan 28, 2020, 08:13 AM
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Thread OP
Excellent sir! Thank you! I had seen a few builds like the Racer, and baby Bugatti and noted extreme level of streamlining they get. I noticed most completely eliminated the canopy for the pilot and the fuse appeared symmetrical.

Now it’s very interesting what you explain about the wing design particularly about the prop configuration! I had been building my wings prop in slot simply for the ease of setting the cg with a smaller battery and keeping the craft light for low wing loading. I noticed early on in building ray when I was mocking up components that pushing the motor backwards on the airframe made it very difficult to get the weight far enough forward to balance. I had taped all my components to the finished airframe at one point because I was scared if I didn’t I’d need a 5200mah battery to balance it . I’ve been noticing a ton of wing designs with the prop and motor still fairly central (almost the way I’d do a prop in slot) and then cut the whole area behind the prop out and put V stabs on both sides of the prop like so. My only concern is that leaves the control surfaces out of the prop wash but I think they should still be plenty large enough to have enough effectiveness.

I P. R. O. P. I
I I
I I

For some reason it won’t allow the gap I was trying to make between the “v stabs” in my illustration. Let’s all pretend that it worked lol
Jan 28, 2020, 08:54 AM
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Thread OP
I see what you guys mean about the control surfaces holy crap! The whole v and h stab are practically controls!! I canít find it but I saw one wherealmost the whole LE of the h stab all the way around the back was control!!
Jan 28, 2020, 10:22 AM
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Yes...and for 3D you swing those huge surfaces like 45 degrees. But at your level you'd want to set up serious dual rates and cut the movement to 1/2" or so until you get the hang of it. Then slowly creep your travel higher with experience.

My Value Hobby Giles 202 has a full flying stabilizer which means the entire h-stab moves. I had way too much travel the first time I launched it. Looped out of my hand and hit me in the back.
Jan 28, 2020, 10:47 AM
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Wow! At first I didn’t get this.. but it’s flying so slowly and gracefully AND doing aerobatics in a fairly small area. I want one!!! But I really would like a realistic looking full fuse one instead of a profile. Even if it has to be bigger. I probably won’t buy many pre builts, honestly I may only buy one. But that edge is a beautiful plane and Im hooked!!


Twisted Hobbys 39" EPP Edge 540 RC Airplane (4 min 13 sec)
Jan 28, 2020, 11:42 AM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
It's possible to buy/build a plane with all the control surfaces "full floating" , such as this one ..... the Carbon Traveler Convertible :



CTC Carbon Traveler Convertible (2 min 41 sec)
Jan 28, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Thread OP
I came across this one that seemed to be exactly what I was looking for but itís discontinued
Jan 28, 2020, 11:59 AM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
Topher, here's what you want...but I doubt it's the best choice.

https://www.banggood.com/Upgraded-Ed..._warehouse=USA

Here's what I think you ought to buy...learn to handle 3D...and then go for the full fuse plane.

http://www.wmparkflyers.com/Mcfoamy_p_80.html

You will repair these planes and the difference in repairing the two will be night and day.
Jan 28, 2020, 12:05 PM
IMO ( In My Opinion ) →
balsa or carbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topher01
I came across this one that seemed to be exactly what I was looking for but it’s discontinued
This one is PNP ( Plug in a receiver N Play ) :
https://www.horizonhobby.com/FMM120P...xoCdM8QAvD_BwE

And there are others :

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...20mm-p-fmm074p

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...80-arf-efl2865

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...m-pnp-efl11575


This one has LED lights : https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...-basic-efl7150

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product...ct--p-efl11550

And that's just from Horizon Hobby , there are many more from other vendors such as Banggood , AliExpress , Motion RC , etc .
Jan 28, 2020, 12:35 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
There's a half dozen or more guys in my current club with the Twisted Hobbies models. These flat foamy flippy flyers are not made from the same easily damaged Depron as many were in the past. Instead they are made from slightly thicker EPP foam that takes one helluva beating with little or no damage. And any repairs needed are easily done with something like Shoe Goo. I've watched them flying their TH Crack series and cartwheel them when they zigged when they should have zagged and no harm at all came from it where a Depron model would have just exploded into shards.

They aren't the only one making models from EPP of course. But having seen them being abused and laughing it off I'd say that there's a strong chance that TH is using a better grade of plastic foam.

They don't have full shaped fuselages I know. And yeah, the look suffers as a result. But you're going to beat up something like this pretty severely at first. So better to just pony up and buy a TH's Edge or whichever you like and learn the tricks.

Watching you fly the other models if you were to get a Crack series kit and fly it with reduced throws to start with I think you'd handle it just fine as long as you don't let the speed get out of hand. When I flew my first flat foam flippy flyer I was actually quite surprised at how soft they are on the controls given the 45'ish travel angles of the big surfaces. That's not to say that minor flying wasn't done with just the suggestion of pressure on the sticks mind you. Just that the model didn't instantly try to turn itself inside out. But with reduced throws as suggested already I think you'd be OK with one pretty soon if not right now.

Another issue with the full fuselage idea is that many of those models use built up wood airframes covered with film. That's all find and dandy but crash one of those even fairly softly and you're looking at a lot of nasty repair work. They don't take kindly to flying into the big green and blue thing.....
Jan 28, 2020, 12:41 PM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
I have both Twisted Hobby 3D planes and the McFoamy I linked. They're all excellent and in every case the TH is equal to or slightly superior to the McFoamy. But they cost twice as much. And they're certainly not twice as good. So depends on your budget.
Jan 28, 2020, 02:53 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by hard line
Topher, here's what you want...but I doubt it's the best choice.

https://www.banggood.com/Upgraded-Ed..._warehouse=USA

Here's what I think you ought to buy...learn to handle 3D...and then go for the full fuse plane.

http://www.wmparkflyers.com/Mcfoamy_p_80.html

You will repair these planes and the difference in repairing the two will be night and day.
I noticed the construction was different on the full fuse planes. I was trying to find one that was balsa/epp as they seemed to be the most durable from what I read. I found this place and some nice planes.. a bit pricey but they seem to be very well built.

https://www.precisionaerobatics.com/...extra-260-arf/

However.. I could buy both models you linked and outfit them for less than one PA airframe lol.. I just finished being a newb and now I’m back needing to fly newb planes again because I want to try something new haha! I certainly don’t want to buy a plane I’m all excited about only to destroy it. Maybe I’ll order both

Edit: Can’t tell what that banggood full fuse is constructed from. I’m trying to avoid a balsa/epo build as the balsa/epp seeems to be superior.
Last edited by Topher01; Jan 28, 2020 at 03:16 PM.
Jan 28, 2020, 03:05 PM
pull up -- PULL UP!!!
You may only be delighted with the looks of the Edge -- But I think you'll be more than delighted with the performance of the McFoamy or any similar plane. And they'll take some abuse.


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