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Dec 10, 2019, 06:39 AM
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hutt's Avatar
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What is the lightest F3P kit available


Hi. I have been flying a Click for a while but would like something lighter
What would be the lightest F3P kit currently available, or even a plan.
Something like this would be very nice
SOIM 2019 F3P-AP - Gernot Bruckmann (5 min 8 sec)
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Dec 10, 2019, 08:21 AM
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crossup's Avatar
Lightest kit is easy- there are only two kits. The Pauzuolis/Lantsov Victory 1SL is around 10 grams lighter than the Supertrino. Both available here:
https://www.pauzuolis-rc.com/
As to plans- 3 moderns ones in this subforum.
Expedition S is a balsa design but I'm making one in CF, plans in the Official Balsa F3P Build thread
Rane 2017 and Colibri , just search here.
If you are not planning on building this season- which is already here, there may be some American foam/CF kits coming. That was the word last year but so far no info as to if that will happen.
Dec 10, 2019, 05:10 PM
Risto Hölttä - F3A/P Team FIN
Finnspeed's Avatar
There should be more choices appearing soon during this season. I have heard rumours about a new depron/Mylar model in kit form and I truly hope it will happen. Additionally there should be more RTF models available as well.

Now that we are talking about F3P models, I have a question (or actually a couple):

What is your opinion about flat kits, would you buy one and what would be a reasonable price?

Alexey did some when he introduced the Victory but I guess they were not popular enough. Assembling a flat kit does require building skills but the hardest parts like curved sections, hinges and painting have been done. Additionally shipping is relatively cost efficient since the kit is light and totally flat.
Dec 10, 2019, 06:42 PM
Registered User
would the super trino be able to be constructed with EPP instead of depron ? it seems that EPP is more forgiving but won't have the rigidity of depron, is there enough CF involved to compensate for the material swap ? i'd buy something artf or rtf but 1900 euros is a bit steep for my pockets but i'm sure is a reasonable cost considering the work involved in creating the end product.
Dec 11, 2019, 03:43 AM
Registered User
Risto, flat kits are the best compromise as far as I'm concerned. On a reasonable price, say around 70 euros for a light ship with a good design for F3P pattern manouvers ?
Me and some folks that are flying Clicks (we have 7 Clicks in our club) would gladly go one step further on a model designed around a single prop, very light motor like the Nicolas Pietu Feather ( 11 grams) and with a flying weight of around 80 grams or so.
I am very glad that some new models are about to pop up
Cheers
Dec 11, 2019, 03:49 AM
Intermediate Multi
Trisquire's Avatar
I could go for a kit. Provide all the bits and pieces and I'll do the rest. The carbon rods would fit in a very slim shipping tube. Mylar can be rolled.
Dec 11, 2019, 04:59 AM
Registered User
Yes, procurement of the materials can be tricky for a relative newbie, and everything needed on a package is a great thing. On the price, if the prefabrication is extensive, I think the price could go up, say 120 Euros? A high price tag would discourage we, the amateurs that don’t compete, and just want to have fun in a relaxed way, with a competent pattern ship that can do it slowlier than or little grays cells process the necessary data
Cheers
Dec 11, 2019, 06:49 AM
Flying a Falcon or a 3D model.
fauconnier's Avatar
A lighter kit at reasonable price , I'm in.

I fly light EPP planes in a small gym and walls are a concern. I don't want a Depron/mylar plane, are CF rods/mylar planes more forgiving ?
Dec 11, 2019, 07:50 AM
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Petefoss's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joao
Yes, procurement of the materials can be tricky for a relative newbie, and everything needed on a package is a great thing. On the price, if the prefabrication is extensive, I think the price could go up, say 120 Euros? A high price tag would discourage we, the amateurs that don’t compete, and just want to have fun in a relaxed way, with a competent pattern ship that can do it slowlier than or little grays cells process the necessary data
Cheers
All good points. I would also consider sourcing the kit with the electronics. When I built my Clik I sourced the kit, prop, motor and servos from 5 different vendors. All those different shipping costs were significant.

After flying Cliks that range in weight from 100 to 140 grams or more, I think an 80 gram plane would be a significant step in flying style.
Dec 11, 2019, 08:22 AM
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crossup's Avatar
EPP/CF/Mylar has been done and while it may survive a crash better in terms of having more repairable damage, it still gets damaged. We should remember that the motor, battery and servos have enough weight the sudden stop of a crash turns them into battering rams. Its simple physics and the same applies to the speed/weight/strength formula.

I find even Balsa will take a decent hit when the plane weights 45 grams going 4 mph.

At some point rather than focus on building what amounts to a rubber(EPP style) plane perhaps one should desire a plane that is easily fixed when damaged and flies slower which gives you more time to prevent a crash as well as sustainling less damage. I think too many people are thinking crash proof which does not exist instead of less prone to crash. Both balsa and CF allow fit that bill with CF being much better taking hangar rash and the smaller impacts.

We all make mistakes, I am no one to say you should not crash, but once you get to the point where you are wanting something lighter and slower than a CLIK!, its time to man up and accept the benefits outweigh the consequences of being lightly built. My balsa Expedition survived 2 season and will fly a 3rd because no matter how badly it is damaged it can be rebuilt. I probably sound like balsa is the best, but while it has advantages- stupid cheap, super easy repairs, you can easily build very light- it is fragile for handling/transport and God forbid, a disaster if involved in a midair. CF is much tougher and flexible on impacts but its strength means crashes will likely tear the mylar. Its is the goto material for a reason.

Pics: L to R
Vision 3D EPP/CF/Mylar under 80 grams flexy and still pops joints in crashes and tears mylar.

Expedition S- hover damage before it ever flew on its wing, balsa broke without tearing mylar- 15 minute repair.

Build board- two planks clamped to two pieces angle iron- adjust gap to any sized for easy repairs even with bracing.
Last edited by crossup; Dec 11, 2019 at 10:55 AM.
Dec 11, 2019, 08:49 AM
Registered User
instead of carbon rod builds would a CNC cut one piece carbon frame be possible out of 0.5mm sheet? no glue joints and a flat surface to glue mylar to, lots of waste carbon but filling in the gaps with motor mounts and control horns and other thin flat carbon items could reduce waste a fair bit.
Dec 11, 2019, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Hi locoworks, that seems to make sense to me. Hopefully someone else with more expertise will followup. Thanks for the idea.
Dec 11, 2019, 10:56 AM
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crossup's Avatar
I'll be the bad guy again-

At $25 sq/ft I think you would be at or beyond double the normal $100 rod/tube price of materials. I can also tell you from experience milling CF sheet eats carbide mills alive. So add another $100 for mills and machine time and that would be a bargain. Also that only gets the "bones" made, you still have to brace it and thats mostly .28mm rod.

Another down side to milled plate would be the square cross section would weight significantly more than rod and lastly with plate you will have fibers going in multiple planes vs pulltruded rod being unidirectional. Bottom line there- rod is stronger and lighter.

Net result- heavier, more expensive, weaker. Sorry.
Dec 11, 2019, 10:59 AM
Flying a Falcon or a 3D model.
fauconnier's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by locoworks
instead of carbon rod builds would a CNC cut one piece carbon frame be possible out of 0.5mm sheet? no glue joints and a flat surface to glue mylar to, lots of waste carbon but filling in the gaps with motor mounts and control horns and other thin flat carbon items could reduce waste a fair bit.
Bright idea but a CF rod with all the fibre longitudinal will take a good weight of woven CF to replace it.
Dec 11, 2019, 11:01 AM
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crossup's Avatar
Looking for alternatives to coax? this guy keep evolving the twin idea- I like it and think if he did this with a more conventional fuselage profile he would have something.

Su-26 F3P Low Budget Contra Drive Biplane V2 build Video | Tobi-Style (7 min 49 sec)


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