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Dec 03, 2019, 06:37 PM
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Captain Dunsel's Avatar
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Build Log

Eindecker


To join the SE-5a I just completed, I’m building another stand-very-far off scale, this one very loosely based on the Ziroli Eindecker. It’s been resized, the nose lengthened, the wing A/R changed, strip ailerons added, the LG/UC simplified, and the cowling replaced. On top of all that, it’s now all paper-covered pink foam (including that cowling) and a bit of ply. To adhere the paper, I’m using an (approximately) 50/50 mixture of Titebond II and tap water (with extra Titebond on stubborn spots).

I’m still developing how I want to work with foam. For my previous foamies, I used Sparky’s excellent method of routing out 1/2” foam sides to 1/4”, leaving reinforcements as needed. This time, I cut the foam to 1/4” thick, then added 1/4” strips, shaped bits, and so on, all as if I were building a wooden model.

Another new (for me) bit is in the wing tips and tail feathers. At first, I tried using paper (blank newsprint on everything except the wing; that gets brown wrapping paper (Dollar Store 30” X 15’ for $1) as if I were covering with shrinkfilm. Where the paper wrapped over a surface’s end, I used straight glue and “T” pins. Problems with that method included rust spots and dents from the pins.

Then, I used binder clamps along the ends, planning to sand the gaps and fill with spackle. It turned out that the protruding paper ends weren’t easy to sand down. Plus, I was getting rust spots from the binder clamps!.

The rust spot issue was easy to solve – I bought a bunch of plastic clothespins. Titebond would glue wooden ones to the paper, but won’t stick to the plastic.

Then I realized I could cover the tips with newspaper strips, first, let them dry, THEN cover the rest of the wing or surface. Use those cheerfully colorful clothespins to clamp the paper close to the surface, let dry, then trim off the excess with a razor. Sanding down the excess was easy, with no gouges left in the foam (Sorry, guys, I didn’t get a picture of the clothespins in action).


Plans update 11 December: I'm updating the plans to include the changes I've made. When I'm done, I'll repost them. 15 Dec - Done, I think!
Last edited by Captain Dunsel; Dec 15, 2019 at 05:03 PM.
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Dec 04, 2019, 10:58 AM
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Did you mean for the plans to be just one small page showing the front bottom of the fuselage?
Dec 04, 2019, 11:13 AM
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Looks nice.
i have made some builds with foam and brown paper.
Make sure the paper are 100% wet before you cover.
I use vaterbased ready made glue for wallpaper from hardvarestore.
No need to mix, just aply with soft wide brusch.
When is comes to wingtips you just let the paper hang out over the edge.
Then you tear (not cut) strips in towards the wing.
Ad much glue and then just let the strips cower each other.
Work from trailing edge toward leadingedge.
A problem is when you ad peaces of wood and then cower with wet paper..
It likes to curve.
In this case you actually dont need the wooden parts, at least not on the wing.
Pink foam is wery strong.
What about sice and setupp ?

// Mats W
Dec 04, 2019, 12:04 PM
treefinder
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Gonna be another sweet plane for you guy! I am nearly done with papering my second try at brown paper covering. I'm not sure that the brown paper is as dent /poke resistant as coffee filters on a large plane . Time will tell, but I think I will add a layer of filters to the hull bottom below waterline for scuff resistance. I wonder how many folk do multiple layers of paper?
Dec 04, 2019, 12:33 PM
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Michael, I've re-uploaded the file. When exporting from LibreCAD, I have to print it as a .PDF; first I have to tell LibreCAD that it's an Arch E-sized print, then I have to tell the printer software the same thing. Otherwise, the 'helpful' software wants to make sure my print fits on a standard, letter-sized sheet. I think I missed doing the latter; I've fixed it now and the plan should be good.

Please note that I'm still building the model, so I may be making changes to the plans (such as showing the paper "diamond" spars). I've already fixed some mistakes I made with the plans I'm building from.

Mats, the reason for the wooden trailing edge (TE) strips is to lessen 'hangar rash'. The first foam-and-paper model I built has gotten pretty dinged up from being moved in and out of the rear of our pickup truck. The models I've down with balsa TEs have managed to keep their edges (despite my clumsiness). On another note, I'm not sure what you meant by 'sice and setup'.

When I paper something, I start by applying a coat of 50/50 thinned Titebond to the bare foam, then let it dry. After that, a light sanding and vacuuming.

Next, I cut the paper oversize, soak it in warm water (with as little creasing as possible), then I brush on more of the thinned Titebond. For wings, I start at the bottom TE, wrap the paper around the leading edge (LE), and pull it over the TE. Now comes squeegeeing out excess water & glue with an old credit card, followed by a sponge.

I then clamp the overlap with the plastic clothespins and let it dry. For ailerons, wings, etc., I do both sides and hang the part to dry (to keep warps from forming). Once the paper is dry, it gets another coat of thinned glue, before adding primer and paint.

So far, I've only done constant chord wings. I'm cutting cores a new way (to me), so until I'm comfy with the way I'm doing it, I'll stick with constant chord. Papering constant chord wings is pretty easy!

Springer, I guess you could consider applying the diamond spars as using multiple layers, as well as layering the tips. Neither one gives (or gave) me any trouble. I just made sure the paper was well-soaked with water before adding the thinned glue. The spars are very strong in the models I've used them on, and the layered tips worked out much better than my older methods.


CD
Dec 04, 2019, 01:40 PM
treefinder
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I tend to overlap about an inch at critical junctures, like the polyhedral tips on the wing in the pic, that probably gives similar reinforcement to your diamond spars (they're a great idea though for mid span). My concern is that I have already poked a few holes in the paper while setting up electronics in wing, concerned that one layer may not be enough. Though the application method method I used was to wet the foam with the 50-50 titebond water mix, paint one side of the paper (like wallpaper) and apply. I then would repaint the outside of paper after squeegeeing it smooth. Perhaps I'm not getting resin fully into the thickness of paper? The few times I got paper "fully wet", it seemed to have no strength for squeegee work.
Dec 04, 2019, 02:19 PM
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Excuse my Swedish Spelling..
Size of modell and Power-setup :-)

// Mats W
Dec 05, 2019, 09:47 AM
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Captain Dunsel's Avatar
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No problem, Mats; your English is far better than the small amounts of any other language I understand.

The Eindecker's power will be a Turnigy 1100Kv motor on a 3S 1500 to 1800 lipo. Her size is 46" span, about 400 sq. in wing area, with an intended weight of under 30 oz.

CD
Dec 05, 2019, 11:08 AM
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That will make a nice parkflyer for calm evenings.

// Mats W
Dec 05, 2019, 03:45 PM
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Update: The motor is a Turnigy D2836/8. I like them over higher Kv motors as they can handle the slow-flyer props at reasonable amperages.

Being retired doesn't mean sitting around the house; today we did volunteer work for county animal shelter, plus I'm in the process of rebuilding my laptop computer (Ubuntu 16.04, now at 19.10). So, all I got done in the Eindecker was to add the paper diamonds.

I WILL add the paper diamonds to the plans, once I get the computer squared away and LibreCAD set up to my satisfaction.

CD
Dec 05, 2019, 07:50 PM
flyin' fool
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Nick Ziroli's WW1 fun scale war birds and the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome modeling event was a lot of fun back in the day. We built them for the combat and mission events.

Great times that ……………...
Dec 05, 2019, 08:47 PM
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I built a Ziiroli 'Sorta-Saulnier" in 1971, then crashed it Rhinebeck the same year. Then, I built his matching Eindecker from FM plans in 1982/83.

Years later, I designed a slenderized, electric version of the Saulnier, which my wife and I flew at Rhinebeck. It was also published in RCMW.

I have to admit I'm looking at pictures and the plans for the Saulner and am thinking about doing it, again, in foam (and at the same size as the Eindecker).

CD
Dec 06, 2019, 07:04 AM
flyin' fool
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We were probably there at the same times. I was transferred out to the left coast in 78'.

We were the rowdy Canuck hardy party bunch from north of the 49th. We were hooting it up around a camp fire and Kodak who was there making a movie about flight asked us to do a 'camp fire' scene. A FB saw it a few years later at Radio City Music Hall and our moment was just that …………… about 20 seconds long.
Dec 09, 2019, 06:44 AM
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Doing a lot of Christmas decorating, so I haven't gotten a lot done on the Eindecker. I did mount the wing, then put the plane on the Frankenjig for mounting the tailplane. Next comes the fin, pushrod mounting, and fuse top.

Goldguy, after my crashing in a tree behind Madame Fifi's, I wasn't back there for a meet until 2014. Visited Rhinebeck a few times, depending on where the USAF had be assigned at the time, but didn't fly in the R/C meet until Miss Micki and I covered it for RCMW in 2014.

CD
Dec 09, 2019, 02:53 PM
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My previous post was this morning; it's now late afternoon, and I've been busy on the Eindecker.

The pushrod outers are in place, the fin is on, and the wing/fuse fairing is well underway.

For pushrods, I like .032" music wire in plastic tube guides. I'm using the outers from some small snake/Nyrod pushrods (the inners are too small for any threaded rods I use, but the outers are just fine for .032" music wire). I use a "Z" bend at the horn end, and small EZ connectors at the servo arm.

Of course, not all went smoothly. I have notches in the fin LE and tailplane TE, so they interconnect for strength and alignment. I should've notched the tailplane TE AND the fuse end, but didn't think of it until this morning... I have some 1/4' spar scraps with sandpaper glued to them for just this sort of notching, but it would've been easier if I'd done it before putting the plane on the jig! <sigh> That's one of the pitfalls of scratch building; you don't have instructions to ignore, uh, I mean, read, before picking up the glue bottle.

Next step is to sand the fuse top smooth, add the top block over the forward fuse, shape and add the cheeks, and sheet the turtledeck. It's raining now and is expected to continue through tomorrow, so I may actually get more done!

CD


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