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Dec 05, 2019, 06:43 AM
Registered User
I am all for it. However, I would prefer a 2M limit. Tons of 2M sailplanes that are affordable and can still easily compete against high end F3K type moldies in this proposed class. IMO...many more people would be interested.

Thread in the thermal section show lots of interest.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lectric-F3-RES
Last edited by mark426; Dec 05, 2019 at 06:59 AM.
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Dec 05, 2019, 08:27 AM
Registered User
Crashbound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark426
I am all for it. However, I would prefer a 2M limit. Tons of 2M sailplanes that are affordable and can still easily compete against high end F3K type moldies in this proposed class. IMO...many more people would be interested.

Thread in the thermal section show lots of interest.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lectric-F3-RES
This^. I don't see a whole lot of success, on a national level that is, of a totally new class that would require yet another airplane (for those who don't have one to convert already) and more $$ to invest in overpriced carbon. Seems to me, simplifying rules and opening a class that could include many NEW people, or established flyers, by enabling them to fly what they have is the answer to getting more participation. (I realize this thread isn't about getting new participants but without that, it's all moot anyway)
Dec 05, 2019, 10:15 AM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark426
I am all for it. However, I would prefer a 2M limit. Tons of 2M sailplanes that are affordable and can still easily compete against high end F3K type moldies in this proposed class. IMO...many more people would be interested.

Thread in the thermal section show lots of interest.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...lectric-F3-RES
Mark and all,
there will always be a desire for a larger wing span in any span-limited class. There are plenty of such requests in the F3-RES world: people are asking why not 2.5m or 3m, and there are kits made and flown with 3m wing spans.
If we were to allow 2m wing span in this new class, and IF (a very big "if" ) it became popular, competitions would be dominated by 2m specialized molded planes. 2m molded planes are certainly more expensive than 1.5m molded planes (which are based on HL wings). And they would be tons more expensive and better performing than the 2m planes you are talking about (F3RES kind?) that are supposedly in abundance now.
The beauty of F3-RES and the reason why it is affordable and attractive, is the wooden structure requirement. Electric F3-RES is a wonderful idea IMO and should be pursued by those wishing for a simple electric soaring class, and I think it will eventually overtake the hi-start F3-RES.

Having said that, I really like the concept of electric hand launch, F5K or whatever it becomes.
Not surprising of course since I fly HL competitively and now also love and fly F5J.

I agree with the concern that (yet) another soaring class will either take pilots away from other competition classes, or just stay unpopular.
And I totally agree with the sentiment that the rules as proposed are overly complicated. For this reason this new class (as proposed) is not likely to bring fresh new soaring pilots into competition, in the USA at least where people want simplicity and equality . So again, it can only survive by taking away pilots from other classes.

I know it is not cool to be critical without even trying this new F5K competition format, so I do not claim to be right on the above issues, and I plan to try making an electric HL plane and give it a try. I talked to a pilot who participated in the first F5K event, and he says it was a lot of fun, and very challenging, and the rules while complicated, make a good sense. Supposedly lots of people are becoming interested in this format in Europe.

I have wanted to try electrifying an HL plane for a long time, and just recently at our F3K event this idea came to light again, as a means to allow people who cannot launch at all (spine/leg/arm problems, etc) to participate in the F3K events. With the availability of easily programmable F5J limiters, it is trivial to adjust the cutoff altitude (50m?) and the motor time (3-4 sec?) on an electric HL plane, to imitate an average hand launch. My secret desire is that F3K allows mixing electric and hand launch planes, but of course I know it is not likely to happen. But at least at club level contests, we could allow non-expert class pilots to use electric launch, to equalize the launch height, and make it more inclusive for non-athletic pilots. This is not unlike how F3B allowed both winch launch and hand-tow launch, and now F3J also is using winch launch while the class was entirely based on hand-tow and its supposed simplicity and low cost. Now there are even clubs in Europe that try eF3B!

Anyway, I know F5K as proposed is not really 1:1 an electric F3K event, but I would love to blend them together somehow...
Dec 05, 2019, 12:04 PM
Registered User
mlachow's Avatar
Eliminates the F3K launch requirements from the airplane, so these will be totally new designs. Disappointing that it is not really multitask. At least they could have added a speed task. Queue everyone up at launch height and fly in a group during a window. Maybe even multiple attempts to eliminate the F3b speed lottery effects.
Dec 06, 2019, 11:30 AM
Per aspera ad astra
The unlimited power is IMO questionable. In all ongoing discussions it leads to extremely loud and noisy high rpm drives. Like pylon racing or flying drones. IMO this is not the way to go. Low emmision (including noise) should be goal of new rules. Soaring ...ha ha

/Bernd
Dec 06, 2019, 12:04 PM
BGO
BGO
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by olgol
I know it is not cool to be critical without even trying this new F5K competition format, so I do not claim to be right on the above issues, and I plan to try making an electric HL plane and give it a try.


I talked to a pilot who participated in the first F5K event, and he says it was a lot of fun, and very challenging, and the rules while complicated, make a good sense. Supposedly lots of people are becoming interested in this format in Europe.

...

Dear Oleg (and others of course),

I am reading all post with great interest. Many opinions and that’s a good thing!

I just want to let you know that your positive input / attitude is an example for many. Also in your last reaction shows an example how to experience new ideas.

For all pilots, I really would like to invite to just go and try it yourself. After flying it is way easier to summarize the experience.

We have flown 1 contest and non of the pilots complained about complexity of the rules. They like the challenging tasks. I agree that after reading the new format many questions come. But after flying it I am convinced that many questions are answered.

December 22th we will fly the second contest. It is the F5K Wintercontest at Terlet - Holland. As always, just for fun. I will try to make some videos and pictures and share it with you. Please find all info here :

https://thermal-soaring.com/evenementen/


Best regards,

Brian
Dec 07, 2019, 05:23 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
The reason TALES became 2m instead of us limiting it to 1.5m is because we wanted to allow people with Radians to be able to fly with us. Personally, I think it was a good decision. There are not a lot of serious 2m planes out there right now but there are a lot of fun affordable ones.
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Dec 07, 2019, 07:27 PM
Registered User
Interesting idea wish we thought of it
Last edited by rogvan; Dec 07, 2019 at 09:27 PM.
Dec 07, 2019, 08:26 PM
solastagia
kcaldwel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wiz
The reason TALES became 2m instead of us limiting it to 1.5m is because we wanted to allow people with Radians to be able to fly with us. Personally, I think it was a good decision. There are not a lot of serious 2m planes out there right now but there are a lot of fun affordable ones.
Simpler to have a local rule that allows 2m foam gliders, rather than upping the allowable span for the camber changing composite wonder ships?

Kevin
Dec 07, 2019, 08:51 PM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
TALES is local to us. We created it before there was F5K or anything else like it, at least to our knowledge.
Latest blog entry: The latest and greatest
Dec 09, 2019, 06:09 AM
Aussie F5J Team
Our ingoing position here in Melbourne will be to have 1.5m moulded and 2m non moulded planes fly together to try and get the numbers and see where the event goes.

No point debating how many pilots will/won't attend or if it will be successful. Natural selection will dictate the answer. Don't fight it.

Enjoy and promote it!

Cheers,
Marcus
(F3K lover who can't throw any more due to a cronic injury)

p.s. lets get some more setup and F3K modification discussion happening as well. I'm keen to know which setups are working .
Dec 09, 2019, 07:14 AM
Registered User
scirocco's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machineman
Our ingoing position here in Melbourne will be to have 1.5m moulded and 2m non moulded planes fly together to try and get the numbers and see where the event goes.

No point debating how many pilots will/won't attend or if it will be successful. Natural selection will dictate the answer. Don't fight it.

Enjoy and promote it!

Cheers,
Marcus
(F3K lover who can't throw any more due to a cronic injury)

p.s. lets get some more setup and F3K modification discussion happening as well. I'm keen to know which setups are working .
I hope the F3K>F5K guys up here in Qld take a similar approach, at least as an interim solution.

Anyway, a Nano is going in my 2m Horejsi Q12 shortly. Even if it isn't eligible to compete I can see practising the F5K flights very purposeful and a lot more compatible with height limited airspace.
Dec 09, 2019, 09:25 AM
Time for me to Fly...
Mr. Wiz's Avatar
Not to try to take over this thread with TALES discussion but to put some thought behind why we chose 2m over 1.5m. When we looking at this format, we saw a need to bring together the young F3K pilots in our club and the older ALES pilots, as well as new comers. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that is also a goal of F5K. At the time there weren’t many 1.5m electric planes available. Sure, you could convert an existing DLG but that isn’t always an easy task. DLG pods aren’t generally round nor are they big enough to stuff all that gear in there. On the other hand, 2m electrics are fairly plentiful. They aren’t for the most part highly competitive airframes but that’s ok. They carry the necessary gear and are pretty affordable. Right now we are finding the Great Planes Tori to be a very good airframe, especially when lightened.

But the other nice thing about a 2m plane is that for the older pilots, it’s easier to see and that’s important to us. Will allowing 2m planes cause the cost to go up if it catches on and MFG’s start making serious competition ships? I suppose but as an example, the E-Snipe is not a particularly cheap plane itself. My Q12x, is half the price.

Anyway, I hope F5K takes hold and becomes a successful discipline.

Cheers
Mike
Latest blog entry: The latest and greatest
Dec 09, 2019, 09:41 AM
Registered User
official FAI classes never were cheap, If we do 2 meter, we will see new moldies is 2 meter size
1,5 is a good comporomise. You can only buy new fuselage (almost all producers) have it already. Also, hand made models like supergee have a chance again, it was an issue to make competetive models due the launch what was suffered by non moldies. now, even thicker or bigger wings are competetive.
Dec 13, 2019, 02:17 PM
Oleg Golovidov
olgol's Avatar
And we are off to the races...
The manufacturers are already gearing up for the new class.
(The German forum has lots of activity related to F5K.)

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...rieb?p=4916386

(of course Snipe-2 electric has already been in production for a long while; and electric Blaster a very long time before that)


--
Last edited by olgol; Dec 13, 2019 at 02:37 PM.


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