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Nov 14, 2019, 06:37 AM
32.4316° N, 80.6698° W
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Discussion

Electric F3-RES


I see over in Europe they are beginning to give E-RES a go. At one contest, this class had one of the highest number of participants. I cant remember exactly what the requirements were but I think it was similar to the existing RES rules but up to 2.5 m wingspan (could be wrong about the 2.5m). Talk is this looks appealing and is gaining momentum with many flyers including the younger folks.

I am all for this class. IMO, it would draw from many of the other dwindling sailplane classes. Even the DLG guys are sticking their toe into electric. At my field, like many others, string launch is difficult if not impossible. Mainly due that the majority of members are powered flyers and they (understandably) do not want a highstart or any other string laid out across the field.

So... I would be an enthusiastic supporter of electric F3-RES for many reasons. What say you?
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Nov 14, 2019, 09:38 AM
Registered User
I have flown with clubs where the members no longer can easily walk after a hi-start. There are plenty of F3RES airplanes that already have power options. Seems easy ( said the guy who has yet to fly a powered sailplane, other than a Radian). Also, I can see the day coming when I may have trouble walking.

I think a format like f5j is the way to go, but I know that many here in the States prefer ALES, for what ever reason. My opinion also is that the current F3RES span limit of 2 meters is promoting some serious design efforts, and that going for longer wing spans (for "better" performance) defeats the original purpose of f3res: attracting beginners with an affordable entry class.

My hope is that as electric F3RES grows (and it will), that we concentrate on small, light and affordable. Please, not another arms race.

Yours, Greg
Nov 14, 2019, 10:07 AM
Sagitta Fanboy
Quite frankly I think that the standard F3-RES ruleset with CAM's set to 100m will work very well without chasing complexity or a perfect ruleset. Keep everything else the same except maybe the task (add 30s for launch IMHO, so a 6:30 task in 9 minutes)
Nov 14, 2019, 10:18 AM
Sonoran Laser Art
Quote:
Originally Posted by glidermang
I have flown with clubs where the members no longer can easily walk after a hi-start. There are plenty of F3RES airplanes that already have power options. Seems easy ( said the guy who has yet to fly a powered sailplane, other than a Radian). Also, I can see the day coming when I may have trouble walking.

I think a format like f5j is the way to go, but I know that many here in the States prefer ALES, for what ever reason. My opinion also is that the current F3RES span limit of 2 meters is promoting some serious design efforts, and that going for longer wing spans (for "better" performance) defeats the original purpose of f3res: attracting beginners with an affordable entry class.

My hope is that as electric F3RES grows (and it will), that we concentrate on small, light and affordable. Please, not another arms race.

Yours, Greg
+1

To keep it simple instead of shagging the line for a relaunch you could just re-arm the AMT. The guys doing TALES have had some AMT's developed with lower launch heights than typical ALES. I beleive the height can be programmed in the Altis. One would need to determine the best way to go. You could use something like a Zepsus magnetic switch so you don't have to unplug. Then keep the rest of the F3RES rules since they are established. Change the rules to F5RES and change the launch method.

TALES, ALES, and F5J has no model restrictions that requires wood or limit functions so I would see this preserving the F3RES intent. From there if it grew I'm sure designs would evolve to. Models can be designed to take advantage of inexpensive low cost outrunners. When it comes to E Power there will pressure to allow other materials like foam, molded pods, cf molded LE's. Soon the arms race forms and ARF's start arriving. In that case I would say go with TALES and preserve the F3RES intent for models should this class be formed, I do think this would be fun.
Nov 14, 2019, 10:25 AM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
I would be interested in such a class. From experience I would suggest an Ales type class with 100m launches.
Ales was a lot of fun with good attendance. F5J killed Ales. It required specialty expensive equipment that was not appealing to the majority of Ales flyers. Keep it simple, keep it inexpensive, and see if you get some attendance. Unfortunately F3-Res requires significant work chasing lines. An Ales alternative makes sense for more people. Just my thoughts. I would not be adverse to a maximum sized battery pack. LJ
Nov 14, 2019, 11:23 AM
Registered User

F3RES-e


Guys
I have a Sultan 600e that I have flown for the last 3-4 years. It is a great flying sailplane - not tooting my horn - all the F3RES airplanes properly converted would fly well. The extra 1.5 - 2 oz. doesn't seem to bother the airplane in normal conditions.
I take it to most of the aero-tows that I attend and always pack it when I go flying at my local field. It is my go to "have Fun" sailplane. Just plug in a 3s 500ma battery and enjoy several launches. CAM is set to 100M.
I am in good health but tested myself with 10 consecutive retrievals' and launches one Saturday afternoon. I went home beat; at 70 I can't keep up with the young folks.
Take the basic format of F3RES use a inexpensive CAM unit and watch the participation increase.

Respectfully
Norm Whittle
Nov 14, 2019, 11:30 AM
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Larry Jolly's Avatar
Where are youflying now. Norm?
Last edited by Larry Jolly; Nov 14, 2019 at 01:13 PM.
Nov 14, 2019, 01:31 PM
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Randy Reynolds's Avatar
eF3-RES is a fine idea. Our club here in Colorado Springs has allowed electric in with the HiStart launch this year. We did find that the HiStart ships only launched to about 80 meters and that the electric ships at 100 meters were noticably higher, enough so that there was concern that they didn't have the CAMs set properly. Eventually we tested the HiStart launches with a good launching Yellow Jacket on a How High device and found an average of around 80 meters. Soaring Circuits does make a TALES version of the CAM that can be set for 60/80/100 meters and we have several of them on order as we are going to use them next year set at 80 meters.

After an active season and one half flying a slightly modified F3-RES rules set, many of our members are disenchanted with the Histart launch method. Not only for the fairly active physical requirement but also because with adverse wind conditions the launches gained were very poor. Since our club prefers Open Rounds rather than Man on Man formats this resulted in uneven scores. We do fly on a sod farm and sometimes the launch heights wouldn't even give us enough altitude to reach the brown stuff off the green grass to where the thermals live. We had one contest where an electric converted two meter gained reliable 100 meter launch heights and the many of us HiStart pilots were a good 50% lower than that. Due to the erratic HiStart launch heights, mixed launch contests aren't equal with electric. We can make it better but likely not even in all conditions.

So all that said our club is enthusiastic about this class and we had 15 members entering scores in our Two Meter Cup this year. I believe we have about six members who will convert to electric over the winter, with one member with a 3D printer has made a clever firewall and cowl for his X-res. I have an electric Yellow Jacket and while I haven't entered it in a competition, I have flown it several times in sport flying. While it is about 2 ounces heavier, that doesn't seen to be a handicap in average air. I do carry the completely set up sailplane in my SUV ad so once at the field all I have to do is to install the battery and I'm ready to fly. Compared to what it takes to make my Xplorer ready to fly this becomes a luxury. These F3-RES ships are fun and satisfying to fly.

Next season we'll likely see electric and Histart flown at an even mix and with the electrics having an equal launch in average conditions. It will be an interesting year.

Randy
Nov 14, 2019, 03:31 PM
Registered User
One of our members converted a Samba EVO to electric, keeping another Samba EVO as a regular sailplane. Through clever planning and arrangemebnt of internal parts, both sailplanes fly at the same weight!

He now brings both to any contest. If we are using histarts, he puts a rubber band arounbd the prop of the powered sailplane, and still has the tow hook. If we are flying powered, well, his unpowered sailplane doesn't get to play. Oh, well.

Anyway, it can certainly be done (powering an F3RES ship) without onerous penalty.

Yours, Greg
Nov 14, 2019, 08:44 PM
Registered User
Hi Larry

After 30 years in the US Air Force I ended up at Hill AFB Utah.
It's been a long trip since the Orange County Thunderbugs and flying with your dad.

Norm Whittle
Nov 15, 2019, 09:30 AM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
I had seen the name before and wondered if it was you.
Thank you for your service to our country. I hope our paths meet again. I am thinking the last time I saw you was 67 at the Contest The Thunderbugs held at Bolsa Grande High School.
Nov 15, 2019, 11:06 AM
Registered User
Larry
Wow what an excellent memory you have. Yes, I was flying stunt in those days.
I talked to your Father at the 88 NATS (or about that time) he was extremely proud of your military service at Wright Patterson AFB.
Well your accomplishments in modeling have certainly been stellar - every time I got good at something the Air Force gave me a new assignment; 15 assignment all over the world - in 30 years.

Norm
Nov 15, 2019, 05:19 PM
Registered User
Larry Jolly's Avatar
Thanks Norm
I don’t do stolen Valor. That was my brother Steve. I had a ride to the Naval Academy and turned it down.
My life took a different road. Not to correct you but Dayton would be 75. I wasn’t flying gliders competitively yet. I flew Team Race and Formula 1.
I am glad you are still active. LJ
Nov 15, 2019, 06:46 PM
Registered User
Larry
Thanks for the correction. Too many tours around the world too many cultures to keep it all straight.

Norm
Nov 16, 2019, 07:33 AM
32.4316° N, 80.6698° W
Thread OP
This probably wont be well received. I think that removing the "self built" rule would help bring more people in. I like building as much as the flying. What am I supposed to do in the shop on non-flying days? I am happy to require building it yourself, however most others are not. At the clubs I fly its rare to see anything other than ARF stuff of any kind. I will bet the farm its the same where you fly. Its not going to change. Current RES rules or my proposal of allowing electric launched exclude lots of potential flyers in the same way as the expense and complexity of F5J has. I dont know of any other sailplane class or most other powered class that eliminates ARF aircraft. I understand the argument it will turn into something expensive and complex like F5J, but it wont if the thoughtful requirements are put in place. Also, how many legal RES ships were bought second hand off of someone other then the current owner...is that self built?

In other words..loosen up on some of the requirements a bit and open it up to a much larger group. Or...leave it the same and watch it slowly (rapidly) die out along with the OLD glue sniffers like me.
Last edited by mark426; Nov 16, 2019 at 07:54 AM.


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