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Mar 08, 2005, 07:15 AM
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Thread OP

Moska on line build


Hi Guys,
After some encouragement, and against my better judgement, I've decided to do my latest build on line. The subject is a 36" (roughly) span model of the Moska MB bis, a WW1 Russian monoplane.

This is the rough idea. The model will be powered by what is labelled as an E-Flite Park 370, but actually looks more like one of the little Himax motors, the 4100. This possibility is reinforced by the fact that every E-Flite Park 370 I've seen since is an outrunner, this one isn't. Anyway, the idea is to run this direct drive on a 2 cell LiPo and 7x3 or 7x4 prop. At the time of purchase, I was assured that it would turn this size prop D/D.

The model will, hopefully, come out at around 9 oz, or less, and use R/E/T controls.
This morning has been spent printing off the parts, ready for pasting to the wood, getting things together and cutting spar and strut material. Just maybe, this afternoon will see the tail outline formers cut and the outlines laminated from 1/32 balsa strip. If not, maybe tomorrow.

This should give you some idea of what it is supposed to look like.

Pete
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Mar 08, 2005, 08:21 AM
Single-task at best...
tim hooper's Avatar
Welcome to the club Pete!

I've never heard of the Moska, but it looks just right for a nice little model. Will you be knitting your own wheels?

tim
Mar 08, 2005, 09:23 AM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
Quote:
This is the rough idea. The model will be powered by what is labelled as an E-Flite Park 370, but actually looks more like one of the little Himax motors, the 4100. This possibility is reinforced by the fact that every E-Flite Park 370 I've seen since is an outrunner, this one isn't. Anyway, the idea is to run this direct drive on a 2 cell LiPo and 7x3 or 7x4 prop. At the time of purchase, I was assured that it would turn this size prop D/D.
Well not acording to the specs I have mate. thats a 4100KV motor and will pull - or try to - about 16-20A on a 2 cell LIPO pack on a 7" prop

Its close to a 400 race motor and 5.5x2.5 would be closer to the mark for a nice slow old lightweight plane.

You want something like an AXI 2208/20 outrunner to match up on a 7" prop.

After some googling: There seem to be two sorts of motors called e-flight park 370, one is essentially the Himaxx 4100,and the other is an outrunner. They are completely different animals.

As seen from these attached pictures Both are allegedly Eflight 370 park motors...
Last edited by vintage1; Mar 08, 2005 at 09:33 AM.
Mar 08, 2005, 09:31 AM
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Pete,

So now that you got the rest of us hooked on your planes you are going to join the fray. Tallyho!

charlie
Mar 08, 2005, 12:03 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Vintage,
I did wonder about the motor/prop, but the spec sheet definitely lists it as an upgrade for 280/370 motors - as in GWS 300 units. It claims current draw of 2-5 amps. It must handle D/D because it comes with a prop driver. Maybe one of the little Gunther props would be better. If all else fails, I have an AXI 2208/26 and the 2204 on order.

Pete
Mar 08, 2005, 12:14 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
It will repalce a 350 in a gearbox no sweat.

But DD? 4.5" prop at the most. Well 5" if you want to pretend that little plane is a WWII fighter.

2208/26 is allegedly a LOVELY motor.

didn't know there WAS a 2204.

you could always (gasp) shove in a speed 400 and gunther prop ...
Mar 08, 2005, 12:15 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
Pete, why not gear the little mite. These are 2.3 MM output shaft are they not?
An Olympus 2.3:1 and a 8X4 E prop would probably fly this model fine on that power level and the additional weight would be great for this particular plane, as it needs all the nose weight it can get. I can't help but agree with Vintage that this motor will be struggling with a 7" prop without some gear reduction.

BTW I know where you got that image, as I've got a 40" ws plan printed up from that same image.
Mar 08, 2005, 12:58 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
There, I can't win. I try to drag myself up to date and someone suggests fitting a 'can' motor. IF I were going with a 'can', it would be a speed 300 fitted with a Gunther prop - just like my little Eastbourne.
Anyway, I'm determined to go BL direct drive and have, in addition to the two AXI motors, a little CD Rom motor that might fit the bill, and have been looking up the Air Power 300XT. Although it's another outrunner, it does look very promising. Only about 25 too. That will DEFINITELY turn a 7x4. Current draw should be less than 4 Amps.

Anyway, I'll carry on puzzling over that. Meanwhile, tail outlines are laminated and drying. The only thing I forgot to get was spraymount, so cutting the rest of the parts will have to wait.

Pete
Mar 08, 2005, 01:08 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
I think - if its the plan I have sight of - its about 40" too. I would guess with LIPOS around the 12-14oz mark is where it will end up.

That says to me it really needs a big slow coarse pitched prop.

And about 6A out of a 2s pack handled efficiently.

Of the motors discussed, The AXI 2204/54 looks extremely 'right' on 8x6 or maybe 9x4.7 prop. I found the specs for that.

The 2208/24 also looks nice, but I think it will be more power than you need. Its more a speed 400 sort of thing.

The e-flight 370 needs a 4:1 box and an 8x6 prop.

All 2s LIPO figures.

I am really impresed with the paper specs of the baby AXI. All the weight right up front, and you could even stick a suite of cylinders on it to make a rotary. Dead easy to firewall mount too. I think for WWI models there is a LOT to be said for it.

In fact looking at all the smaller AXIS, you can get the sort of 10" PROP 5000 rpm sort of 480 power out of them as well.

Hmm.
Mar 08, 2005, 02:34 PM
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Pete,

I am about to try out my new CDROM motor (gobrushless) wound with 15T 26ga, on 2sLiPo's, 7x4 prop at just under 5A. Will let you know how it goes. Oh, only took about 2hrs to wind and assemble the motor. It is replacing a sp280, 3.22:1, 8x6 prop, 3sLiPo setup.

At least you have stepped up with LiPo's!

Enough motor talk, how about cutting some balsa! With all those sticks should only take 30 min

charlie
Mar 08, 2005, 02:37 PM
Trampling out the vintage
Not sure where the wing is but the nose looks pretty short compared to gear placement. Might need a brushed motor and round batterys to get CG right - unless the builder is talented enough to build the tail light.

We know this chap can design, but does he still know how to build? This thread will show the answer!!
Mar 08, 2005, 04:52 PM
Registered User
Thread OP
Vintage,
Nope, definitely nearer 33" span. It had better not come out at 12-14 oz, my 36" Eastbourne, with 2 cell, 1400 mAh Li-Ion and Speed 300 only weighs 9 1/4 oz. This will be much nearer the 9 oz. mark, depending on what power it ends up with.

Charlie,
Okay, got to let those laminations dry before I get on with the tail surfaces. Spraymount is on the shopping list for tomorrow - then the balsa hacking can begin in earnest. Just remember, I use PVA, not CA.

Greg,
Aye, there's the rub. It's been almost a year since I built a model, I may well have forgotten how it's done - I doubt it though.
Actually, it felt really good to be doing some building again, almost like coming home.
Shouldn't be too bad to balance, 4 1/2" in front of balance point, mostly motor, dummy engine and batteries, supported by balsa sheet and liteply. Aft of the balance point is about 20" made up of 3/32" balsa strip, a bit of covering and a lot of fresh air.
As for wing position, it's a sort of shoulder wing model. The wing is supported just above the fuselage sides on short struts. There's actually a whole 2 1/2" in front of the wing.

Pete
Mar 08, 2005, 05:40 PM
Heli Bouncer
Looooeeee!'s Avatar
The details on the full scale plans give an idea about how you could set up wing warping on this model. It would be a challenge, but at a larger scaling this would be great with the wing ends warping and wagglin' around as you fought the reverse yaw with generous amounts of rudder. I have this desire to model this plane at about 65" or maybe bigger. The rudder is so tiny, I wonder if it would need to be enlarged for a small RET version.

Glad to have you as one of the "on-liners" Pete, it's really an honor to build one of your models.
Mar 08, 2005, 05:43 PM
Registered User
vintage1's Avatar
Baby AXI peter. The 2204. Perfect at 9oz.

To be honest, aty that weight 3s LIPO and an IPS will fly it.
Mar 09, 2005, 09:15 AM
Neophyte hacker
portablevcb's Avatar
Pete, Don't worry, you'll be done with this one before the SPAD gets done.

charlie


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