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Oct 22, 2019, 08:54 AM
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Percival Q6 - build blog.


G'day all,
Returning to aircraft modeling after a 45 year hiatus. I am currently finishing a 66" wingspan Beechcraft 77 (Skipper) I used the plan from the center of a magazine for a 22" rubber powered model and scaled the plan up 300%. Obviously there was a lot of rework to be done to the internal structure. Since the aircraft is nearing completion I have been looking around for another project and found the Percival Q6 which appeals to me.

I have purchased the Q6 plans and ordered the laser cut wood kit. Whilst waiting for the kit to arrive I have been pouring over the plans and purchasing items needed that are not included in the kit. My building philosophy is very much the same as the Q6 designer Robin.
1. All aircraft design is a compromise.
2. Weight is the enemy.
3. Scale aircraft should fly at scale like speeds.

I have already purchased 6" wheels from HobbyKing. Nice scale appearance plastic hubs with soft rubber tyres - seem to be hollow / or possibly foam filled -, with a diamond tread pattern. Very impressed and they were only Aus$12 and 440gms a pair. Dubro/Kavan wheels are just not competitive on two parameters - weight and price. (Aus$84 and 720gms a pair)

I will be basing my build on the 3 dimensional views shown below. There are a few drawings on the web each with minor differences.
This will be a long slow build, I'm in no rush
Last edited by RogerMaz; Nov 06, 2019 at 05:51 PM.
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Oct 22, 2019, 09:37 AM
There are some who call me....
campbelltf's Avatar
Good looking subject. I'm sub'd.
Oct 23, 2019, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by campbelltf
Good looking subject. I'm sub'd.
Hi mate, " sub'd " ?? I don't understand but thanks for the comment. I take it you like the Percival Q6. Considering it was produced in the golden years of aviation (1930's) it is very advanced in it's streamlined styling. It certainly appeals to me. If it was made from aluminium it wouldn't look out of place mixing with aircraft from the 1950's - 1960's. Plywood is it's archile's heel. There is another thread in this forum - a build log by the plan designer (a huge plus for anybody wanting to build this model) that has images showing off the beautiful lines.

Roger
Oct 23, 2019, 06:16 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
Did you notice there are some threads on the Q6 down in the 'Similar Threads' list, might be helpful.

Sub'd = 'Subscribed' to the thread, you get informed when there are update.

Nice looking twin.

.
Oct 23, 2019, 07:46 AM
There are some who call me....
campbelltf's Avatar
Apologies for the brief and idiomatic response. Yes, I do like the Q6, I enjoy the lines from that time period and the twin engines. It will be enjoyable to follow your progress. It sounded as if you'd be designing your own plans. Is that the case?
Oct 23, 2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by campbelltf
Apologies for the brief and idiomatic response. Yes, I do like the Q6, I enjoy the lines from that time period and the twin engines. It will be enjoyable to follow your progress. It sounded as if you'd be designing your own plans. Is that the case?
No mate, my skills at tech drawing are not that good. Anyway why reinvent the wheel ?. Robin has done all the hard work so I purchased a set of his plans from Traplet plans service ( now in liquidation but the plans service in Australia has been taken over by "Custom Model Works" . In Britain I believe " Sarik Hobbies " have done the same. ). When I discovered that they were literally only a 10 minute drive from where I live in Sydney, I was around in a flash and amazed to find that they had a copy of the Q6 plans in stock. I immediately purchased the plans and at the same time placed an order for the laser cut wood parts kit (ribs, formers etc). There are several images of the front, plan and side elevation views of the Q6 and slight (minor) variations, of no real consequence, in each view, and who is to say which is correct.

Having Robin active, and his build log of the Percival Q6, in this forum is an absolute boon to anyone wanting to build the Q6.

Roger
Last edited by RogerMaz; Nov 09, 2019 at 09:17 AM.
Oct 23, 2019, 08:14 PM
There are some who call me....
campbelltf's Avatar
I hadn't seen Robin's build, so gave it a read. Some interesting techniques he's used in the construction. And it's big!

I wish I was as close to Sarik as you are to CMW, I ordered plans from Sarik 5 weeks ago and am still waiting for them to arrive... alas...

I'll be watching with interest.
Oct 23, 2019, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by eflightray
Did you notice there are some threads on the Q6 down in the 'Similar Threads' list, might be helpful.

Sub'd = 'Subscribed' to the thread, you get informed when there are update.

Nice looking twin.

.
Thanks for showing interest in the project. Yes I have read, read, read, re-read, re-read, re-read, studied, studied, studied ( you get the idea) the threads you mentioned. An absolute mine of information and the ability to converse with the original designer - how good is that !!

Cheers, Roger.
Oct 24, 2019, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by campbelltf
I hadn't seen Robin's build, so gave it a read. Some interesting techniques he's used in the construction. And it's big!

I wish I was as close to Sarik as you are to CMW, I ordered plans from Sarik 5 weeks ago and am still waiting for them to arrive... alas...

I'll be watching with interest.
Terrific !! We will be building in parallel. It will be great to follow each others progress.

Like you I'm also stuck waiting on stuff from Sarik. Whilst I purchased the plan over the counter from CMW they simply passed on my order for the laser cut pieces to Sarik so I'm also in your position. I'm making good use of the time searching the internet for equipment/parts that will be needed to complete the build.

Roger.
Oct 29, 2019, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMaz
Terrific !! We will be building in parallel. It will be great to follow each others progress.

Like you I'm also stuck waiting on stuff from Sarik. Whilst I purchased the plan over the counter from CMW they simply passed on my order for the laser cut pieces to Sarik so I'm also in your position. I'm making good use of the time searching the internet for equipment/parts that will be needed to complete the build.

Roger.


Whooohooo!! Called in to CMW today (Mon 28-10) to check if my order for the laser cut kit had gone through ok. I arrived to find the salesman opening a large cardboard box just received from Sarik and YES my Q6 kit was included along with 4 other laser cut kits of other aircraft and about a dozen plan sets.
So, ordered on the 2-10 and received on the 28-10. 3 weeks and 5 days delivery time. That's excellent service. I couldn't get home fast enough to open up the package and see the pre-cut bits.
First impression. - Is that it? is that all there is.?? The bundle is deceptively small 22" x 8" x 4.5". I did a quick count of the number sheets in the bundle - 74 ! Not much waste either. I estimate probably about 15 - 20 %.
Couldn't resist the temptation to check it out on the small digital kitchen scale - 1484 gms. and probably 200gms of that will be waste.
Conclusion. - the laser cut wood is well made from good quality materials. It isn't cheap but will save many hours of tracing from the plan and cutting out parts.
Today I also received a copy of February 1983 Aeroplane Monthly. I ordered from UK because it has an excellent article about the Percival Q6 and Mew Gull. I included the magazine in the photo to give a sense of scale to the laser cut kit.

Anyone know the aeronautical equivalent to the "laying of the keel" or the "setting of the foundation stone". ?? to express the commencement of construction of an aircraft.? The wing centre section I guess is the place where construction begins but I just don't know how to word it.
Nov 03, 2019, 03:49 AM
...design-build-fly-publish...
eye4wings's Avatar
Hi Roger - and all!

Great to see such interest and enthusiasm.

Sorry - I don't know the term used for commencement of building. Probably, as I would expect everything to be based on jigs, all parts could be started at the same time and brought together later.

For a model I always start from the heart of a model - or where the trickiest bits are so that I don't find I have built most of the model before finding I have a problem I can't master. But that's for a prototype.... and there really aren't any tricky bits on the Q6. It should all go together like clockwork. Just a bit of care in setting up the nose on the wing centre section and the wheel suspension in the spats.

Thanks for showing the wood pack Roger. That is the part over which I have no control. Nigel Cartwright very nicely transferred my hand-done drawings to CAD and I assume he also set out the cut sheets, so based on his evident skills I expect all to be well. He was painstaking and thorough.
I expect though when you get them separated you will find each part separated with a strip of waste between whereas I would butt one piece against another wherever possible - but kit cutters don't seem so paranoid about waste as I am because they probably get their materials cheaper than you or I do. I'd be interested to see how the wing ribs have been laid out on the sheet.

My suggestion is:
Start with wing centre section (nice and straight); add nacelles and wheels; add nose but before sheeting top assemble the wire loop tail joining system so you have best freedom of access (allow for thickness of finishing meterial); build wing outer panels on centre section ( to ensure plugging in is accurate); and finally build tail.

And, most important of all.... have fun!

Robin
Nov 05, 2019, 04:15 AM
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Production assembly line started.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eye4wings
Hi Roger - and all!

Great to see such interest and enthusiasm.
I expect though when you get them separated you will find each part separated with a strip of waste between whereas I would butt one piece against another wherever possible - but kit cutters don't seem so paranoid about waste as I am because they probably get their materials cheaper than you or I do. I'd be interested to see how the wing ribs have been laid out on the sheet.

My suggestion is:
Start with wing centre section (nice and straight); add nacelles and wheels; add nose but before sheeting top assemble the wire loop tail joining system so you have best freedom of access (allow for thickness of finishing meterial); build wing outer panels on centre section ( to ensure plugging in is accurate); and finally build tail.

And, most important of all.... have fun!

Robin
G'day Robin, Rest assured the quality of the wood kit is very good. Nice and light and cut to very close tolerances. It should make construction that much easier. You are correct in saying that the wood cutter isn't trying too hard to minimize wood. I've included a few pics of the sheets (not all) for the wing ribs - unfortunately I had already pressed out the ribs but it gives a good idea of how things were arranged. Keeping in mind that there are 3 iterations of each of the nose rib, the upper camber, and lower camber on 2 different thickness of balsa, and differences in shape, so it would be quite difficult to minimize wood to the level of your minimal wood example.
I have studied your build log and will be building in the same order as you suggest.

I have already glued the nose ribs to their respective upper cambers using the airfoil sectional view on the plans. - parts fitted perfectly spot on size.
Next I will assemble the upper wing upside down on the plan.
One quick question - the plan shows a thin deep sectioned spar along the front of the nose ribs, but doesn't say what material is used. Can you remember if it is ply or balsa. ??

Cheers Roger.
Nov 05, 2019, 05:26 PM
...design-build-fly-publish...
eye4wings's Avatar
Than you for showing some of the cut sheets. Looks more like 50% wastage from those, which means only about 700 -800g will be going into the model + glue and sheet not supplied. 12lb AUW should be achievable.

The strip you asked about is a false leading edge to glue the leading edge of top and bottom sheeting to in order to get a good straight line. It can be soft balsa but the actual balsa leading edge which is glued onto it would be best in medium balsa if there is any danger of running into the rough.
If there is any danger of the false L.E distorting as the sheeting is added it would be worth adding the L.E to it before adding the top sheet. this will provide positive positioning for the front of the sheeting.

Robin
Nov 08, 2019, 01:44 AM
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The fun begins


"The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step" --- so here I go.

With that in mind I collected up all the parts needed to build the wing center section ( I have decided to follow the excellent build log posted by Robin).

Step one - glue the 2 pieces , the upper camber rib3 and the nose section rib5, together. With the plan flat on the table and the wing sectional view covered with translucent grease-proof paper carefully/accurately positioned the 2 pieces and used a dab of ZAP CA+ glue and in 10 seconds the bond is secure.

Next step - build the upper half of the centre section wing. - upside down on the flat workbench.
Cut both spars to length and place on plan and mark the position of all the ribs on both spars. It immediately became apparent that due to the upper camber that the ribs cannot be glued onto the spars if the spars are flat on the table. The spars had to be raised off the table. The more experienced builder may simply do the process hand held in mid air but there is no way I would be able to achieve a straight wing doing this. A quick search of my scrap bin came up with some 12mm sheet. I cut 4 short lengths (to be used as sleepers) approx. 2" longer than the distance between the spars, placed them approx. equidistant along the spars on the plan and then placed the spars on the sleepers. The spruce spars were now elevated 12mm and parallel with the table. The ribs could now be fitted to the spars.
Fitted the thick ribs to both ends of the spars. A simple set square is used to make sure of 90 degree alignment both horizontally and vertically. Each Rib was dry fitted first to check alignment and then again ZAP CA+ glue was used to secure the joints. Now that I have a set rectangle the rest of the spars were dropped into position, one at a time - checked for alignment and then glued - , ensuring the ribs with the truncated nosepiece were placed at the centre line of the nacelles.

Due to the high precision of the laser cut parts the build went together very accurately and I'm extremely pleased with the straightness of the wing section.

My job is to see that it remains that way as the build progresses. There is no way I could manually trace and cut out the ribs and achieve the same accuracy.

One final note. - for some strange reason I have 2 spare ribs left over. Double checked the plans to make sure. I'm under orders NOT to add extra structure (must keep weight to a minimum ) to strengthen up just in case, so those unwanted ribs will go into my off-cuts bag.

Next step will be to add the lower half of the wing section to the upper half. The section is still fairly flexible and I would like to see it stiffen up a bit before attempting any sheeting.

Roger.
Last edited by RogerMaz; Nov 08, 2019 at 02:41 AM.
Nov 08, 2019, 07:32 AM
There are some who call me....
campbelltf's Avatar
Great start!


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