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Oct 18, 2019, 04:32 AM
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Discussion

Does anyone else feel like they should have aileron and elevator on the same stick?


Trying to learn mode 1, but instinctively I feel like I should have elevator and aileron both on the left stick. I also got the X-lite S, so the controller form factor contributes to that I think

Although I do have elevator set so that pulling down makes the plane go up, that feels natural, since back is tilting the plane back and forward is tilting forward.
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Oct 18, 2019, 05:35 AM
Beach Bum
Steve FliesLow's Avatar
Mode 3 fits your requirements. Aileron & elevator on left stick. May be able to change it in the radio settings. The FrSky Q7 has four mode options for sticks.
Oct 18, 2019, 06:39 AM
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I had it in mixer before but I felt it might be bad to Learn On that since everyone here is mode 1
Oct 18, 2019, 07:30 AM
Registered User
Like on a real aircraft aileron and elevator is on the stick. And rudder on the pedals and throttle left or right on the dash.
For me ail & elv on my right stick and throttle a
& rudder must be on the left stick?
Oct 18, 2019, 09:28 AM
Flying a Falcon or a 3D model.
fauconnier's Avatar
Elevator and ailerons on the same stick is the most logical set-up, like moving the plane with a stick in the middle of the plane. It's even more logical for helicopters. I think ruder and throttle on the left is more common because most people are right handed.
Last edited by fauconnier; Oct 18, 2019 at 01:48 PM.
Oct 18, 2019, 10:32 AM
aka: A.Roger Wilfong
gnofliwr's Avatar
WRT using a different Mode. Unless there's a good reason, it's probably a good idea to use the predominant Mode in your area. It's easier to get support and training. In the US, Mode 2 is most common, while in Europe, it's Mode 1. There are good arguments for each, and to a great extent, it boils down to the muscle memory you develop.

That said, a good flying buddy in his 80's has flown Mode 1 his entire life (well, at least since he quit just pushing THE button once for right, ...). A couple of years ago he started teaching himself to fly Mode 2. Why? Not because he finally came to a realization that it was better than Mode 1, but because it was a challenge and kept him on his toes. And rewired his brain.

Something from history. Many of the early pioneers in aviation started by designing, building and learning to fly on their own. That resulted in some control configurations the were "unconventional". Virtually no one adopted the Wright's cradle for roll control. Clyde Cessna in his early designs used a stick and rudder configuration, but, IIRC, the elevator was reversed. This configuration was carried on in his personal planes into the Travelair days, and the mechanics would have to re-rig the controls on any plane Clyde flew.

- Roger
Oct 18, 2019, 04:09 PM
Bombs away! Err...landing
Ira NZ's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by athiril
Trying to learn mode 1, but instinctively I feel like I should have elevator and aileron both on the left stick. I also got the X-lite S, so the controller form factor contributes to that I think

Although I do have elevator set so that pulling down makes the plane go up, that feels natural, since back is tilting the plane back and forward is tilting forward.
I'm confused. If you feel that's what you want, why are you even trying to learn mode 1 rather than mode 2 like most people?

And that's how the elevator axis is almost always(I'm sure there's some weirdo exception) set up.
Oct 18, 2019, 05:10 PM
B for Bruce
BMatthews's Avatar
Mode 1 with the rudder and elevator on the left and aileron and throttle on the right is very European. And some precision aerobatic pilots prefer it as well. Mode 2 with a more aeroplane stick like setup of aileron and elevator on the right and rudder and throttle on the left is what most of the rest of the world uses

I believe there's a few that make up a sort of mode 3 with throttle and aileron on the left and rudder and elevator on the right. Again for finer control when flying precision aerobatics.

Back when radio sets were expensive and there was an assortment of two and three channel sets available the two channel sets used separate single axis sticks in Mode 1 with the turning control (rudder or aileron) on the right and pitch on the left.

Athiril, I'm going to guess that you live in a European country if that is the setup that you got. Is this the case?

Also don't think of which way the model goes from the Tx standing up on its feet. Instead consider the sticks when the Tx is laying on its back and the sticks are like a control column in a real plane. So pulling "back" on the stick (towards the base of the Tx case) is good and proper and you "guessed" correctly to set your Tx up that way.
Oct 18, 2019, 05:27 PM
jofro
Quote:
Originally Posted by athiril
Trying to learn mode 1, but instinctively I feel like I should have elevator and aileron both on the left stick. I also got the X-lite S, so the controller form factor contributes to that I think

Although I do have elevator set so that pulling down makes the plane go up, that feels natural, since back is tilting the plane back and forward is tilting forward.
Stick with what ever you started with! Ones you start screwing with the modes you'll end up like "IBF", after he tried to change his golf swing.
Oct 18, 2019, 07:49 PM
WJH
WJH
B747-400 First Officer
WJH's Avatar
Real airplanes have aileron and elevator on the same stick, just sayin...
Oct 18, 2019, 08:35 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
Back in the 70s, when I was flying aerobatics in competition, the top 10 aerobatic winners at the Nats were typically a mix of Mode 1,Mode 2 and single stick, with Mode 2 a minority in some years.

The Mode 1 folks claimed it was easier for them to get more precise control inputs using one hand for aileron and the other for elevator, with no inadvertent mixing of aileron and elevator inputs.

I started out Mode 2, but also learned to fly Mode 1 fairly well, and also flew a fair amount of single stick, training the pilots that wanted to learn that way. (For those new to the hobby, single stick is aileron and elevator on one stick, with a large knob on the stick that you twist for rudder control. Three axis control on one stick) the pilot typically cradles the single stick TX in one arm and flies with the other hand. The arm cradling the TX also controls the throttle, via a lever on the side.

I always felt that Mode 2 made the most sense to me. I have not flown those other modes now for over 20 years.
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Oct 18, 2019, 08:45 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B
Back in the 70s, when I was flying aerobatics in competition, the top 10 aerobatic winners at the Nats were typically a mix of Mode 1,Mode 2 and single stick, with Mode 2 a minority in some years.

The Mode 1 folks claimed it was easier for them to get more precise control inputs using one hand for aileron and the other for elevator, with no inadvertent mixing of aileron and elevator inputs.

I started out Mode 2, but also learned to fly Mode 1 fairly well, and also flew a fair amount of single stick, training the pilots that wanted to learn that way. (For those new to the hobby, single stick is aileron and elevator on one stick, with a large knob on the stick that you twist for rudder control. Three axis control on one stick) the pilot typically cradles the single stick TX in one arm and flies with the other hand. The arm cradling the TX also controls the throttle, via a lever on the side.

I always felt that Mode 2 made the most sense to me. I have not flown those other modes now for over 20 years.
hmm, never heard of single stick. Do they still make TX's in that form factor?

I have a disabled friend that would likely do well with one...
Oct 18, 2019, 08:56 PM
Registered User
I find mode 2 to be natural for my flying with aileron and elevator on one stick. I flew with two pilots that flew mode 1 in competition - both learned that way. One was from England - where many pilots flew mode 1. I flew pattern for many years and I resorted to very strong springs on my right stick to help avoid getting any aileron input when putting in large elevator inputs. I can see how mode 1 would help with that but full scale aerobatic pilots only have one stick for elevator and aileron.
The joysticks are just the interface between our brains and the airplane controls so there is no one way to do that. The same goes for thumb flying vs pinching. Some of the very top aerobatic pilots pinch and some thumb. There is no clear advantage to either method at the top level of competition.
Oct 18, 2019, 09:06 PM
If it flies, I can crash it.
rocketsled666's Avatar
For 3-channel models, I mix the Mode 2 aileron channel to the rudder channel but I leave rudder on channel 4.
Oct 18, 2019, 09:36 PM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
Piece's Avatar
Relearning your control map isn't impossible. In fact, I think the difficulty is much overblown, and a determined person could probably become proficient in multiple different modes and switch between them at will.

I once learned to fly an RC heli with the roll channel reversed. Trained like that for weeks. When I finally found the switch to correct it, the transition was almost immediate. No difficulty.

Early on in my scratchbuilding experiments, I started building elevon planes to fly with my old analog 4-channel radio (Mode 2) that only came with a switch for V-tail mixing. This meant roll control was on my left stick while pitch was still on the right. I learned to deal with it just fine, but then I rewired the radio so the "rudder" potentiometer went to the "aileron" channel, and vice versa. It didn't take long to re-learn the new layout.

More extreme example: I used to play Super Smash Bros with my brother a lot. One day, as an experiment, he started playing via the game's reflection in a window, and I started holding my controller upside-down. At first it seemed impossible, but within a few minutes we had both adjusted to the challenges. We stopped running off ledges. Our battles became just as competitive as normal.

I'd wager that experienced RC pilots are a lot more flexible with control inputs than they generally expect. Think about how you can "feel" what a model is doing based on observed deviations from your inputs, or how you can precisely control a model with stick movements so small that they're barely visible. If two channels suddenly swapped sticks in flight with zero warning, I bet most of us would start flying the other stick even before we consciously realized what was going on.
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