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Oct 18, 2019, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorfolkSouthern
It says "online aeronautical and safety test" meaning it will be on the internet, possibly on the FAA's website.
The FAA got out of the test administration business decades ago. When you read the RFI, the FAA acknowledges there are expenses and records that must be kept. The current testing centers are private businesses and the FAA requires them to use a secure computer. It would be interesting to know the 40 companies that responded. Online does not say that it is free. Cheating has always been a concern of the FAA, I am not sure how that will be addressed.
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Oct 18, 2019, 06:56 AM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
So, how many folks not already involved in this hobby are going to want to learn all the stuff about reading sectionals and airspace regulations, NOTAMS, TFR's, ATIS, and other "real pilot" jargon so they can go out and purchase a Walmart drone or Horizon UMX toy aircraft and fly it in a park or their backyard. It is really beyond absurd to think people are going to comply in any significant number. Either they will operate illegally or just not bother with this hobby.

What do people who want to fly a pretty much fly itself "drone" need to know about "aeronautical" stuff like lift and stalls and AOA and why would they need to know this? What does it have to do with the safety of the NAS? What technical stuff do model airplane pilots need to know about "weather?" It is pretty simple to look up in they sky, your phone, or weather on TV and determine if it is Ok to fly a model plane LOS.

What is the point of making a test that is difficult and mostly irrelevant for many potential hobbiests that they will abandon the hobby? Or is the point to pretty much to clear the NAS from these people and leave it open for mostly professionals and business?
Last edited by u2builder; Oct 18, 2019 at 07:07 AM.
Oct 18, 2019, 09:34 AM
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ace4rc's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
Or is the point to pretty much to clear the NAS from these people and leave it open for mostly professionals and business?
Bingo!!!!

But the sad part is this pipe dream of drone delivery is years away.
Oct 18, 2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
So, how many folks not already involved in this hobby are going to want to learn all the stuff about reading sectionals and airspace regulations, NOTAMS, TFR's, ATIS, and other "real pilot" jargon so they can go out and purchase a Walmart drone or Horizon UMX toy aircraft and fly it in a park or their backyard. It is really beyond absurd to think people are going to comply in any significant number. Either they will operate illegally or just not bother with this hobby.

What do people who want to fly a pretty much fly itself "drone" need to know about "aeronautical" stuff like lift and stalls and AOA and why would they need to know this? What does it have to do with the safety of the NAS? What technical stuff do model airplane pilots need to know about "weather?" It is pretty simple to look up in they sky, your phone, or weather on TV and determine if it is Ok to fly a model plane LOS.

What is the point of making a test that is difficult and mostly irrelevant for many potential hobbiests that they will abandon the hobby? Or is the point to pretty much to clear the NAS from these people and leave it open for mostly professionals and business?
Fixed-wing operators definitely need some knowledge of center of gravity, air density, stall and recovery, among other items. Multi-rotor users are still susceptible to wind and weather conditions. There's not a lot we can do once the FAA requires the knowledge of terms and airport operations. Yes, I believe this test could drive an overwhelming majority of the population out of the market, and those who seek to get into it will want it only for the most practical reasons. Photography comes to mind for most, but finding a buyer for my Extra 300SP air frame is going to be a hard sell.
Oct 18, 2019, 01:55 PM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorfolkSouthern
Fixed-wing operators definitely need some knowledge of center of gravity, air density, stall and recovery, among other items. Multi-rotor users are still susceptible to wind and weather conditions. There's not a lot we can do once the FAA requires the knowledge of terms and airport operations. Yes, I believe this test could drive an overwhelming majority of the population out of the market, and those who seek to get into it will want it only for the most practical reasons. Photography comes to mind for most, but finding a buyer for my Extra 300SP air frame is going to be a hard sell.
All True, but multi users don't *need to know* the fixed wing stuff and for LOS ops no one really needs real airplane user knowledge of weather as they are not likely to fly into a storm miles or hundreds of miles away. Wind effects depend on the model and the capability and judgement of the pilot .

They obviously need to see the aircraft so they wouldn't fly in a fog, and not in the rain or wind beyond what they can handle. Most people would look out the window, listen to a weather report, or look at their phone weather.

We are only taking about how to fly safely LOS ops below 400' in a particular airspace. The test should just cover items essential to accomplish this mission. Anything not relevant should not be on the test.
Last edited by u2builder; Oct 18, 2019 at 02:02 PM.
Oct 18, 2019, 02:05 PM
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The FAA has a different view, they want you to have the knowledge for all types of aircraft in the hobby. Just like your drivers licence does not say "limited to and from Wal Mart".
Oct 18, 2019, 02:10 PM
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exf3bguy's Avatar
No but my drivers license is for class C Vehicles. If I want to drive a truck, motorcycle, bus, air brake equipped vehicle or Hazmat I need to take different testing.
Oct 18, 2019, 02:19 PM
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aeronaut999's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
All True, but multi users don't *need to know* the fixed wing stuff and for LOS ops no one really needs real airplane user knowledge of weather as they are not likely to fly into a storm miles or hundreds of miles away. Wind effects depend on the model and the capability and judgement of the pilot .

They obviously need to see the aircraft so they wouldn't fly in a fog, and not in the rain or wind beyond what they can handle. Most people would look out the window, listen to a weather report, or look at their phone weather.
I do often use the METARs (weather reports) from a nearby airport to decide when to fly my rc models. The wind reports are useful. Also, when the cloud base is above about 700' and below about 1300' is the best time to strap on the on-board camera and take cool videos of punching up into the... oh never mind.
Last edited by aeronaut999; Oct 18, 2019 at 04:46 PM.
Oct 18, 2019, 03:54 PM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray93J
The FAA has a different view, they want you to have the knowledge for all types of aircraft in the hobby. Just like your drivers licence does not say "limited to and from Wal Mart".
Sure, but they don't do that for real pilots, for which there are many advanced ratings that are required for advanced aircraft, so it has always seemed odd to lump multirotors and traditional model aircraft in the same hobby category and it is rather unfair expect pilots to understand the aeronautics of both types since they are so radically different except I suppose for propeller theory and one really doesn't need to know about that to fly safely in the NAS. They should have a test where the applicant only has to attempt to answer X out of Y total questions.

There is already Part 107 for professional pilot and business types. The hobby exemption has a lot of limitations, and the test should be simpler and perhaps open book to encourage learning and compliance. The whole thing will be an exercise in futility if it requires learning a lot of stuff that is not very relevant to flying LOS UAV's safely and the compliance rates are in the single digits.

The FAA seems to "have a different view" on the subject of model airplanes than most of the people I know, who have flown them with a high degree of safety for more years than a lot of the people making the rules have been alive.
Oct 19, 2019, 05:36 AM
Registered User
A private pilot can fly in any airspace they desire. An instrument rating is required for Class A or IMC. Yes, special training and licence is required to fly multi engine. ATP pilots must be type rated in each airplane they fly.

So, instead of one test for hobby people, you want multiple tests based on what you fly? People are objecting to taking any test.
Oct 19, 2019, 07:27 AM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
What I am really saying is I think if the FAA makes this test too complicated it and includes a lot of questions on fixed wing aeronautical stuff it the toy drone folks are going to find it way to difficult and just not bother. Actually, I think this is pretty much going to be the case anyway. Of those "million or so" registered UAS people, my guess is most are flying multirotors that fly themselves or tiny airplanes. Really toy airplanes. They are not heavily invested in the hobby.

Actually, I think there should be no test required for less than 250 gram UAV's which do not have to be registered. If I remember correctly one has to acknowledge basic safety rules when they register. This would allow people to try out the hobby before taking a test.

Most people in this hobby are not full scale pilots already familiar with aircraft and rules of the air, and with the 400' limit and LOS limits they really don't need to know a lot of stuff that full scale pilots need to know.
Oct 19, 2019, 07:42 AM
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Getting new people in the hobby has been so difficult in the past, now we have to take test and follow FAA regulations.
Oct 19, 2019, 08:53 AM
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kingwoodbarney's Avatar
The recreational test should be easier than the 107 test and people seem to be passing that without any problem.
Oct 19, 2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwoodbarney
The recreational test should be easier than the 107 test and people seem to be passing that without any problem.
And these are people with limited, if any, aeronautics background. Many are taking the 107 test to use drones as airbrone camera platforms.
Oct 19, 2019, 10:11 AM
FlyLikeAnEagle-LandLikeADove
u2builder's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray93J
And these are people with limited, if any, aeronautics background. Many are taking the 107 test to use drones as airbrone camera platforms.
They are highly motivated because they want to use their camera drones for commercial purposes. They are paying $150. They probably study pretty hard just like a person motivated to get a private pilots license.

This is a lot different than a 10 or 15 year old kid (or my 4 and 6 year old grandaughters) who would like to see what is like to fly a drone or small plane.

Even real wannabe pilots or interested citizens can take the controls of a real plane BEFORE they have to pass a "Knowledge Test." By approaching it this way they learn a tremendous amount from their experience and their instructors.

The FAA plan for model airplanes is totally backwards: take the test first and then if you pass you can see if you like the hobby.

It doubt there are many educators that would recommend this approach for learning.

I also doubt that many young people are going to enter this hobby with this kind of impediment. There are a lot of other hobbies to choose from, and really, who wants to have the FAA looking over their shoulder anyway.

Oh well, at least there will be less people cluttering up the flight line for those that remain in the hobby, and the NAS will be become devoid of model planes as those people die off, and DHS, the FAA, and Congress will not have RC hobbiests to worry about.


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