Lumenier RB2205C-12 2400KV SKITZO Ceramic Bearing Motor
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Old Jan 14, 2006, 04:40 PM
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Google video pickup up this nice Rafale M video from Dassault Aviation, incl various carrier landings (on the Charles DeGaulle) :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...32284&q=rafale



.
Last edited by Herb; Jan 14, 2006 at 04:48 PM.
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Old Jan 14, 2006, 05:54 PM
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Hi Herb,

Have you looked at the Dubai display on the Dassault site. The guy finishes the display by pulling almost to the vertical with gear down, from which he 360 barrel rolls straight into a high alpha slow landing.

Ron
Last edited by Ron Laden; Jan 15, 2006 at 03:56 AM.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 08:30 AM
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very nice video! i tried doing video search a while ago and nothing on rafale
Old Jan 16, 2006, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Laden
Hi Herb,

Have you looked at the Dubai display on the Dassault site. The guy finishes the display by pulling almost to the vertical with gear down, from which he 360 barrel rolls straight into a high alpha slow landing.

Ron
YES! I saw that live . I have a selfvideoed clip of that here on the PC, but it's about 46MB ;(.
Cheers, RD
Old Jan 16, 2006, 03:04 PM
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http://www.dassault-aviation.com/gb/...le.cfm?id=2527

Click on "VIDEO" at the bottom.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 03:30 PM
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Hi Ralf,

I wish I had been lucky enough to have seen that live, that is the coolest and the bravest final approach I have seen.

Cheers
Ron
Last edited by Ron Laden; Jan 16, 2006 at 03:36 PM.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 04:45 PM
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I must admit that video is worth looking at a dozen times, that one hell of a pilot. Do any of you guys think you can perform a move like that on our rafales?
Old Jan 16, 2006, 05:11 PM
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Rafale Demo


I must admit that is the most original approach I have ever seen
The French can sure build planes I will give them that but I still think that the
F16 can outurn the Rafale. I have never seen a jet do the 360 in full burner faster and tighter than an F16 being flown during its airshow demo
I dont know if it could pull off that approach trick or not but jets are not supposed to get killed landing But I do love the Rafale I cant wait to fly mine,
Joe

PS: Ditto on what Ron said
Old Jan 16, 2006, 05:12 PM
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Not Me and not with my Rafale.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Laden
..Have you looked at the Dubai display on the Dassault site. The guy finishes the display by pulling almost to the vertical with gear down, from which he 360 barrel rolls straight into a high alpha slow landing. ...Ron
Thanks for the heads up on that video, Ron.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by arod
I must admit that video is worth looking at a dozen times, that one hell of a pilot. Do any of you guys think you can perform a move like that on our rafales?

it probably can be done, but only on a BVM.
Old Jan 16, 2006, 07:46 PM
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Would have tried this one with mine first, if it wasn't for the fact that it was over water

Rafale almost splashes
Old Jan 16, 2006, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Herb
Would have tried this one with mine first, if it wasn't for the fact that it was over water

Rafale almost splashes
Wow, thats a SPF 45. Bet the pilot needed to clean out his flight suit.
Old Jan 17, 2006, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Would have tried this one with mine first, if it wasn't for the fact that it was over water

Rafale almost splashes
Herb, I,m sure that is how he meant it to be
Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:04 PM
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I dont really think that he intended to do that its kind of too close to the water but i can assure u that i didmake him look good and not only was his pants wet from the water im sure he peed on himself too!
Old Jan 17, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Guaranteed it is a testament, not to a good pilot, but to a great airplane.
Dassault design team score: 10.
Pilot judgement score; 0......luck: 10
Old Jan 17, 2006, 04:21 PM
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Nah, you mean that was good luck and not good judgement, well I am surprised.
Old Jan 23, 2006, 08:56 AM
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Hello all,
just finish to read the thread and......wow your world is rather different from what you can find here in Italy!!!
You have space to fly, no houses around, no cars or boring people closed to your models!!
I decide to write this message because I really want to get the latest Rafale C1, I love this model and I really appreciated the technical discussions I read here on this topic.
I just have some questions regarding the lipo battery-engine set-up.
Finally what do you think is the perfect electric motor for this model?
What's about the lipo Batt. (I mean how many cells, how many MAmp.).

The last question:
Do you think I can land w/o gears? just sliding on the lawn.

Ciao a tutti!!!
Old Jan 23, 2006, 10:26 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Hi, off course you can land without weels... you just need a grass field.

Setup; there are many different. I'm trying a low cost but good performance setup;

2 x minifan (wemotec), 2w20 HET and 2 x 4s 3700 PQ XP lipo's

She will be about 2,6KG and 1200W power... I guess she will fly very nice...

Have to wait till half of feb i guess...

Pascal
Old Jan 23, 2006, 10:35 AM
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Great Paint scheme and execution Rodebaron!
Your Rafale will really look great in the air!
Old Jan 23, 2006, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodebaron51
Hi, off course you can land without weels... you just need a grass field.

Setup; there are many different. I'm trying a low cost but good performance setup;

2 x minifan (wemotec), 2w20 HET and 2 x 4s 3700 PQ XP lipo's

She will be about 2,6KG and 1200W power... I guess she will fly very nice...

Have to wait till half of feb i guess...

Pascal
Thanks a lot for your reply, I want to try with the single fan one it seems the cheapest solution.
BTW, Did you have some delivery problem with this model?It seems the new version it's only available for who has placed the order last year? Is it true?

Ciao
Old Jan 23, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Someone Is Flyng Without Landing Gears?
Old Jan 23, 2006, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WINGS OF ITALY
Thanks a lot for your reply, I want to try with the single fan one it seems the cheapest solution.
BTW, Did you have some delivery problem with this model?It seems the new version it's only available for who has placed the order last year? Is it true?

Ciao
I asked the same question a few posts ago, Wemotec (Oliver) replied:

Quote:

About the single version:

Aeronaut promised to deliver 2004 backorders before xmas 05, but last wednesday I got a call from Aeronaut, that they only got a very limited first delivery of Aramid Rafales, which were delivered to those who ordered before april 04.

So general availability is delayed to Feb. 06, this is for pre ordered kits.
If your dealer orders now, Aeronaut promised to deliver about May 06.
We ordered a couple kits back in april 04 so I expect to see the kits in stock in Feb. 06 with more dropping in in May.

We get a lot of inquiries about the new version and know that customers contact any dealer they can get hold of, but as long as the kits are not available from the manufacturer, dealers are all in the same situation.

Oliver
Old Jan 23, 2006, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WINGS OF ITALY
... You have space to fly, no houses around, no cars or boring people closed to your models! ... I just have some questions regarding the lipo battery-engine set-up. Finally what do you think is the perfect electric motor for this model? ... Do you think I can land w/o gears? just sliding on the lawn. ...
Ehila Ali dell'Italia ,

* Believe me you need a large field to fly the Rafale, it easily goes over 140mph and uses up a lot of sky. It would be perhaps unsafe to fly at a small location. You get an idea by watching the videos.

* There's two versions now of the Rafale. The old one (twin 90mm fans) and the new one (single 120mm fan). They both fly about the same with similar setup. The single fan version makes the installation of air retracts a lot simpler (more space).

* The single fan version isn't any cheaper, that seems to be a common misconception. If you are aiming for 2000+ Watts (retract version) then you need the Aeronaut carbon fan, a large (Tango or Lehner) motor, and still lots of Lipos (10S, 12S etc). The twin 90mm fan version can be flown very well with relatively inexpensive twin WeMoTec Midifans and twin Mega 22/20/xx or 22/30/xx's.

* The Rafale can be bungee launched and landed on the grass. For a video see here (mine oringinall flew without retracts) : https://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/sho...cat=500&page=1 . Keep in mind that the single-fan version has three large openings in the bottom for the retracts, http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showp...7&postcount=11 . It is a huge plane and looks nowadays a bit ridiculous off the bungee, and in any case needs quite a long ramp .

* The no-wheel option is discussed at length in part I of this thread, you will see lots of pictures (and videos) there: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...=154235&pp=100

* There are apparently still delivery problems with the single (120mm) fan version, you need to put yourself in line and wait. But that's not unusual for large high quality edf's. The older twin fan version is easy to find.

Hope this helps hwh


.
Last edited by Herb; Jan 23, 2006 at 01:00 PM.
Old Jan 23, 2006, 01:07 PM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Thanx Aygusta!

@ All; I still think my setup (2x70mm) is a lot cheaper than 2 x 90 or 1 x 120mm fan!

And lighter... that's why she will fly (almost) as good)...

Flightreport will follow mid feb.

Pascal
Old Jan 23, 2006, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Ehila Ali dell'Italia ,

* Believe me you need a large field to fly the Rafale, it easily goes over 140mph and uses up a lot of sky. It would be perhaps unsafe to fly at a small location. You get an idea by watching the videos.

* There's two versions now of the Rafale. The old one (twin 90mm fans) and the new one (single 120mm fan). They both fly about the same with similar setup. The single fan version makes the installation of air retracts a lot simpler (more space).

* The single fan version isn't any cheaper, that seems to be a common misconception. If you are aiming for 2000+ Watts (retract version) then you need the Aeronaut carbon fan, a large (Tango or Lehner) motor, and still lots of Lipos (10S, 12S etc). The twin 90mm fan version can be flown very well with relatively inexpensive twin WeMoTec Midifans and twin Mega 22/20/xx or 22/30/xx's.

* The Rafale can be bungee launched and landed on the grass. For a video see here (mine oringinall flew without retracts) : https://www.rcgroups.com/gallery/sho...cat=500&page=1 . Keep in mind that the single-fan version has three large openings in the bottom for the retracts, http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showp...7&postcount=11 . It is a huge plane and looks nowadays a bit ridiculous off the bungee, and in any case needs quite a long ramp .

* The no-wheel option is discussed at length in part I of this thread, you will see lots of pictures (and videos) there: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...=154235&pp=100

* There are apparently still delivery problems with the single (120mm) fan version, you need to put yourself in line and wait. But that's not unusual for large high quality edf's. The older twin fan version is easy to find.

Hope this helps hwh


.
Thanks so much, thanks for the time you spent writing this fantastic reply.
I'm learning a lot from your suggestion and I'm always convinced to go ahead with this project.
So definitely I cannot fly over the church of my village during the apple cake contest we are going to have next September this aircraft seems to be a weapon not an air model!!!
My edf experiance is with an alfa F-86 super pumped!!

Now, I'm going to enjoy the video of your links.

Ciao ragazzi!!
Last edited by WINGS OF ITALY; Jan 23, 2006 at 03:23 PM.
Old Jan 26, 2006, 03:10 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Phffff,

Paintjob finally done... black nose and nozzles.

Now "only" the inlets and installing the fans.

Hopefully maiden mid feb!

Pascal
Old Jan 27, 2006, 11:23 AM
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I am about to order an Aramid version of the 120mm Rafale. I was wondering if I order the 3 part pneumatic kit proposed by Aeronaut (# 73581/52) or if there is a smarter/better landing gears option to choose from a third party supplier ?

What brand/model of pneumatic retract is supplied by Aeronaut under the reference # 73581/52 ??

Also, what is the complete increase of weight on the retract option versus NO landing gears at all (bungee take off)

Many thanks for the advices.
Old Jan 30, 2006, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
I am about to order an Aramid version of the 120mm Rafale. I was wondering if I order the 3 part pneumatic kit proposed by Aeronaut (# 73581/52) or if there is a smarter/better landing gears option to choose from a third party supplier ?

What brand/model of pneumatic retract is supplied by Aeronaut under the reference # 73581/52 ??

Also, what is the complete increase of weight on the retract option versus NO landing gears at all (bungee take off)

Many thanks for the advices.
Is it available somewhere this model? Could you suggest some supplier in Europe or in US to order the model?
Someone can answer to the questions "quoted"

Thanks
Old Jan 30, 2006, 01:30 PM
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You should perhaps contact an Aeronaut distributor directly ?

http://www.aero-naut.net/index.php?id=304&L=1

http://www.aero-naut.net/398.html?&L=1

www.wemotec.com

http://www.hoellein.com/
Old Jan 30, 2006, 03:18 PM
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Based on the photos at the aero-naut catalog the retracts are SpringAir 300 series 3 gears
Old Jan 30, 2006, 03:26 PM
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Springair 602 , same as in my twin 90mm.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showp...6&postcount=23
Old Jan 30, 2006, 03:43 PM
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The one in the catalogue is a spring air 602, but this is not what they will deliver. They get their own ones assembled elsewhere, since Spring Air... you know the story!

If you are not in a hurry, I can only recommend to wait for about 2 weeks from now.
There will be a better option available at a slightly lower price.
Let me say, that the Porsche of retracts is close, but as usual we will only announce availability when there is a sufficient launch stock on shelf.

Oliver
Old Jan 31, 2006, 12:23 AM
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Oliver,
Will these retracts be a WeMoTec Brand product ?
Old Jan 31, 2006, 12:44 AM
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I have seen pictures of the prototype - they look very nice . From what I can see they are a Springair 602 dropin fit, but I heard the allusion that they might be offered in more than one size. They are not made in Germany, seen the small type on a good watch lately ?

Keep in mind that DS needs Springair compatible retracts for the Hawk as well, so he's in the same bind ... There's other European edf models (eg JePe A-4, Savex F-16 etc) in need of these things too.
Old Jan 31, 2006, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb

.... They are not made in Germany, seen the small type on a good watch lately ?

...
I'm guessing this dosent mean MOCKBA, like on my Russian Army watch.

Hope this means JAPAN.

I remember when MADE IN JAPAN was considered a bad thing.
Old Jan 31, 2006, 01:21 AM
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Japan ? what kind of watches are you wearing these days
No, they're not made by Gucci either
Old Jan 31, 2006, 01:31 AM
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@ Kevin:

One size is exclusively made for us, the other items are adjusted to fit our needs best.

This will not be a line we just sourced cheap and throw on the market. We invested a lot of development work to set new standards in theis area.

And no, it´s neither japanese nor russian. You are thinking too complicated.

Oliver
Old Jan 31, 2006, 06:36 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Hi there...

Inlets are customized...
Need to dry and then I can go maiden the bird in the weekend!

Setup is also tested... Read al about my dissapointments in the 2W20 thread!!! Only 537W.... behhhhh

See pics
Old Jan 31, 2006, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Japan ? what kind of watches are you wearing these days
No, they're not made by Gucci either
Rolex is in the retract business?? I'll have to modify my watch winder to make that one work.
Old Feb 01, 2006, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeMoTec
@ Kevin:

One size is exclusively made for us, the other items are adjusted to fit our needs best.

This will not be a line we just sourced cheap and throw on the market. We invested a lot of development work to set new standards in theis area.

And no, it´s neither japanese nor russian. You are thinking too complicated.

Oliver
Oliver,
is it available from WeMoTec stock the new C1 Rafale?
If not, do you have any idea when it'll be available?
I' do not want to pass trough the Italian dealer, can I buy directly by Wemotec trough the web?
Waiting for your answer, thank a lot.
Old Feb 01, 2006, 02:00 PM
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The Kevlar Rafale is still not generally available. They where promised for December but Aeronaut changed this to end of february just before xmas.
I heard that they shipped about 20 kits just before xmas.

Be sure that I will announce them here the day they drop in.

Delivery to italy is no problem. Yes we deliver direct.
Price is not fixed yet, but will be published here.

Oliver
Old Feb 02, 2006, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeMoTec
The Kevlar Rafale is still not generally available. They where promised for December but Aeronaut changed this to end of february just before xmas.
I heard that they shipped about 20 kits just before xmas.

Be sure that I will announce them here the day they drop in.

Delivery to italy is no problem. Yes we deliver direct.
Price is not fixed yet, but will be published here.

Oliver
Can I book one model or there is already a waitling list?
Thanks
Old Feb 02, 2006, 09:37 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
My newest toy (rafale) is ready to fly.... only waiting for the ESC.

Everything is ready to go...

Weight will be 2580gr!

Pascal
Old Feb 02, 2006, 09:57 AM
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2580 gr ONLY !!! How dod you reached such a low weight ? What is your setup ?
Old Feb 02, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
hehehe,

2580 gr is low, but also "only" 1140W...

Setup;

2 x;

Minifan
2W20
Hacker 70A
4s PQ3700 XP (gives me about 8-10 mins flighttime with motormanagement)

Pascal
Old Feb 07, 2006, 07:31 AM
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Aeronaut Rafale and single Midifan


Hi guys,

Have been reading through this thread and many previous Rafale threads over the last year or so. I bought a fibreglass kit second hand from a guy in london for Ł80. I decided to modify it for a single midifan from a weight and a cost point of view. Running a Mega 22/30/3 on 24 cells should produce a similar amount of thrust as two 22/30/3's on 12 cells each, around 1200W.

The ducting was a bit of a challenge and took some time but I got there in the end. When the model was completed, about six months ago, I looked around at the lipo option to further reduce weight. I bought two polyquest Twenty C 4s 3700 mAh batteries and wired them in series. I measured static thrust at 1.8kg with an all up weight of 2.7kg. Reasonable thrust to weight ratio.

I was too scared to fly it for ages as it looked so good on top of the piano but I took it to the local club a few weekends ago. With bungy set up, range checks done and her sitting on the ramp (and only ten people watching!) there was no excuse but to give it a go.

She flew beautifully! Bungy was just about stretched enough, although I would suggest a long ramp and maybe not a ground mounted bungy fixing peg. Just about made it off the ground but once she was airbourne a click of right trim and a bit of up elevator and she was away. I flew for four minutes and decided to land as I was unsure of how long the batteries would last. Wanted enough in the tank to go around again. She glided in smoothly for a perfect touchdown right in front of me. Hoorah!

Setup:

1 Mega 22/30/3
1 Wemotec Midi Fan
2 4s 3700 mAh Polyquest Lipo (20c)
I SBEC
1 Jeti 70 3p OPTO controller

I'd recommend this plane to everyone. She flies beautifully.

Happy Landings
Old Feb 07, 2006, 07:59 AM
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Excellent flight report and congrats on your maiden flight!

Spar
Old Feb 07, 2006, 09:49 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Hi Guys...

I also maidened her today (2 minifans Rafale);

1. flight; Bungee start alright, then violent left & right outbrakes... way to much sensitivity on the ailerons!!!!! Needed also some trim to the right and up... after that I really needed to land...
Pffff... she's on the ground again...
ASt least lots of power and she is trimmed...

Oke; 2. flight with less sensitivity!
Beautifull bungeestart... flew her right to the sky, half roll and a high speed fly by... wow nice sound (twin engine)...
Beautifull high and low speed passes... power to go up into the sky!
Nice landing....

Conclusion; a very nice plane on 2 x minifans
!!!!


Happy with her!

Pascal
Old Feb 07, 2006, 10:24 AM
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Congratulation Pascal!


And a rather quick project too. Pascal picked it up second week of december in our place.

Oliver
Old Feb 07, 2006, 10:33 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Thanx Oliver...

Did some speedreading; high speed pass; 185 KMH... not bad for this size bird!

Pascal
Old Feb 07, 2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaseinabox
... modify it for a single midifan from a weight and a cost point of view. Running a Mega 22/30/3 on 24 cells ... two polyquest Twenty C 4s 3700 mAh batteries and wired them in series. I measured static thrust at 1.8kg with an all up weight of 2.7kg. ...
Glad it worked out for you !


The Aeronaut Rafale is very light and will fly well already on 1200 Watts or so, provided you use a manly bungee. That's how mine flew initially on round cells. I wonder how that bifurcated outlet worked out for you, or did you just cut out the twin outlets form the fuse.
Old Feb 07, 2006, 01:34 PM
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Bifurcated ducting


Herb,

I went for the difficult to manufacture route. I wanted to keep the scale lines of the plane. I constructed the duct from thin clear and black plastic whilst paying close attention to the Fan sept area. Seems to work very well. I tried several different methods of construction including moulding out of carbon and resin. They were very strong but also very heavy.
Old Feb 07, 2006, 01:36 PM
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Nice work, although my experience is that you loose quite a bit on these bifurcated outlets. I tried it in the F/A-18 and it was horrible. But yours looks much nicer, and every model is a bit different.

I think if you get over 1500+ Watts (balanced Midi or DS51) or so you might be able to retrofit it with retracts for rog.
Old Feb 07, 2006, 01:42 PM
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Ds 51 3 ph Dia


I bought a Schubeler fan for this model after I built the ducting and it is a few mm too big so I shelved it for another project which has turned in to a BAE HAwk.

I ran the fan on the same setup and it seems much more powerful?

Am hoping that the hawk with it's retracts, lights and all the trimmings will ROG.
Old Feb 08, 2006, 02:21 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Here is a somewhat nice video of my maiden (edited by Emile);

http://members.home.nl/ehuibers/movi...inifan2W20.wmv

Pascal
Old Feb 08, 2006, 05:30 AM
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Pascal,

Congrats with succesfull maiden, nice vid!

I've heard a lot of trimming beeps the first minute, and the question from Emile "is the plane in normal position or inverted" followed by your answer "inverted" and then a 1/2 looping... ...ooops... ...and more trimming beeps...
...and finally: "...now it's trimmed"

High heartbeat rating ?

Btw, nice low AUW !

Koen
Old Feb 08, 2006, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koezzy
Btw, nice low AUW !
Koen
Very nice Pascal.
Old Feb 08, 2006, 07:41 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
@Koen;

Heartbeat was 150+.... :-)

Question was NOT from Emile... but from me!!! Due to violent left & right rudder I almost lost it!

Peter gave me the right tip "inverted"... so I recovered it! Pffffff... I think there was only 3-4m between full speed Rafale and hard ground!!!!



Pascal
Old Feb 09, 2006, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodebaron51
Here is a somewhat nice video of my maiden (edited by Emile);

http://members.home.nl/ehuibers/movi...inifan2W20.wmv

Pascal
Hello Pascal,
nice to see how well fly your model, please could say me how much time you can fly with this configuration (Lipo-motor-weight)

Could you explain me how did you make the bungee?
Can I find it somewhere already made?
Ciao
Old Feb 09, 2006, 07:05 AM
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It sure is a very adaptable model...
2 x minifan
2 x midifan/schuebie
1 x TF4000
and it seems to fly nicely (though differently) on all of these setups.
Old Feb 09, 2006, 08:14 AM
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Hi wings of Italy...

Here is a pic of my bungee... you can easily build it yourself!
I made bigger weels for the Rafale to lift the front up... (out of wood).
Works fine.
Above you can see my pedal... from JePe.

Other pic is position of the hook on the plane and a pic of the inside of the plane... you can see where I put the lipo's...

Pascal
Old Feb 09, 2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodebaron51
Hi wings of Italy...

Here is a pic of my bungee... you can easily build it yourself!
I made bigger weels for the Rafale to lift the front up... (out of wood).
Works fine.
Above you can see my pedal... from JePe.

Other pic is position of the hook on the plane and a pic of the inside of the plane... you can see where I put the lipo's...

Pascal
Thank for the pics, I was not clear, my question was:
How many minutes do you fly with this battery configuration?

Grazie
Old Feb 09, 2006, 10:26 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Now I fly max 5:30 mins... because of savety (new model)...

With motormanagement I will go up to 7:30 soon!

Pascal
Old Feb 09, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodebaron51
Now I fly max 5:30 mins... because of savety (new model)...

With motormanagement I will go up to 7:30 soon!

Pascal
Sorry Pascal,
i don't want to bore you but I would like to copy exactly your configuration. About the battery and seeing the pic it seems you have 2 x 2S1P PQ 3700 that finally means 4S2P PQ 3700 connected to two ESC per each motor.Is it correct?
Old Feb 09, 2006, 11:26 AM
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Hi,

I have two times this setup in the Rafale;

Minifan
Het 2W20
Hacker 70a
4s1p PQ 3700 XP

Pascal

P.S. So in total 4s2p.... but separately installed!
Old Feb 09, 2006, 12:27 PM
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How is the fan unit secured in place? Radial lugs with screws into the bulkhead, or beam mounting lugs? Pics from Aeronaut website.

I presume that the rear end of the fuselage remains detachable for access to the fan.

Gordon
Old Feb 09, 2006, 12:55 PM
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Gordon,

The Turbofan is secured with a carbon composite ring that bolts on the bulkhead, these pictures might clarify a bit how it's done:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...t=38222&page=3

For the DS 120mm fan you might have to modify the mounting method, but that should not be too difficult.
Old Feb 09, 2006, 02:08 PM
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Thanks Herb

Super drawings

It looks as if beam and carbon composite ring mounting can be employed, whilst the wings appear to mount onto carbon dowels which also locate in the fan mounting bulkhead.

Overall a pretty neat arrangement.

I suspect that the composite ring mount would suit the DS94 best.

Cheers

Gordon
Old Feb 09, 2006, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
... the wings appear to mount onto carbon dowels which also locate in the fan mounting bulkhead....
Hello Gordon, the guy that is building that particular version shown in the pics wants to make the wings removable (transport), so he is adding all that carbon tube stuff. The removable wings are not part of the (new) Aeronaut kit design.

One problem I see with his build is that he is adding so many features, whistles and bells that by the time he is done his weight might be a bit excessive (for me). His empty kevlar airframe (ie rtf but w/o batts) is projected at 2.90 kg, while mine weighs in today at a meager 2.45 kg (also rtf but w/o batts), with full retract installation.

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showp...6&postcount=23
Old Feb 10, 2006, 05:50 AM
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Aeronaut 4000 EDF or Schubeler 94


Hello All,

I finaly e ordered a Panther for my LAMBERT micro Kerozen Turbine, but I might choose an Aramid Rafale for my Next EDF plane.ract


Questions:

- Do I also order from Aeronaut their own 120mm FAN (4000 serie ?) or do I purchase separately a schubeler DS94 ? This is worth if the schubeler is really better !

- Do I also order their proposed 3-part pneumatic retractable undercarriage available as an accessory set (Order No. 7358/52) or is there else were a better alternative ? (again this is worth only if the alternative is really better)

many thanks
Old Feb 14, 2006, 02:42 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Hi Guys... here it finally is... a GOOD video of my minifan Rafale!

Made an 8 min quality video of slowflight, high speed, rolls, high AoA etc...

"Only 13mb..."

Thanx to Emile for the camera work!

Who says this setup is no good????


Enjoy, click right button and "save as..."

http://members.home.nl/pphgielen/Raf...22006%20PG.wmv

Pascal
Old Feb 14, 2006, 08:53 AM
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Fantastic video Great Flying

Tony
Last edited by mediq; Feb 14, 2006 at 12:37 PM.
Old Feb 14, 2006, 10:51 AM
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Pascal,

Good looking and very nice video !
Grtz
Nickos
Old Feb 15, 2006, 05:35 PM
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Pascal. very nice flyer!! nice vid!

nickos, did you guys take any vid of emiles twin spider Rafale?

Alex
Old Feb 16, 2006, 02:07 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
HAHAHAHAHA,

Emiles Rafale is not aitborne yet! So not vid I quess...

Maybe this weekend? Then we can really compare.

Pascal
Old Feb 16, 2006, 03:01 AM
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really nice....... way to go.

Gene
Old Feb 16, 2006, 03:37 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Best thing is that I have 7+ minutes of flight!!!

Maybe later I will change to an even hotter setup like the Hacker B40 8L...

Then I will go from 570W to almost 700W....

But let me be clear; with the 2W20 it is a very good powered jet!

But some of you do know me... never fast enough...

Pascal

P.S. I'm also thinking of changing my Jepe F16 setup; leave the spiderfan 2.5W in but change the cells;
From 5s2p PQ2600 to 5s1p PQ3700XP cells... save some weight (70gr) and according to Jepe get more watts... so thrust - weight will to to 1600gr thrust vs 1450 gr weight..... there you go!

Idea?

Anduhhhh; also on this plane... it rocks like it is, but.....
Last edited by Rodebaron51; Feb 16, 2006 at 04:06 AM.
Old Feb 16, 2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Would have tried this one with mine first, if it wasn't for the fact that it was over water

Rafale almost splashes
This was filmed during a multinational maritime exercice where the Rafale performed a touch-and-go landing aboard the carrier Eisenhower.

http://www.european-security.com/index.php?id=5277
Last edited by Tanguy&Laverdure; Feb 16, 2006 at 03:40 PM.
Old Mar 01, 2006, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon
How is the fan unit secured in place? ... Gordon
It's quite possible that a really hot motor will need a substantially reinforced mount,

like the TwinTango proto (3.5kW, estimate) ...



http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...t=39769&page=3
Old Mar 04, 2006, 01:25 PM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Did the French take over the Netherlands skies????


Pascal
Old Mar 04, 2006, 02:08 PM
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Hi there just checking in is the new Rafale available yet to order in the US.
Thanku Scott
Old Mar 04, 2006, 04:57 PM
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What eight glass, carbon or aramid fabric would be used in an model such as the Rafale? What number of layers?
Old Mar 04, 2006, 06:24 PM
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Pascal, Emile :

Looking great (the jets )
Like to see them fly on the meetings....summertime YEAH

Grtz
Nickos
Old Mar 05, 2006, 12:55 AM
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Rodebaron51 - Are those two Rafales from Aeronaut ?
Old Mar 05, 2006, 03:27 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Yes, both from aeronaut!

Mine has 2 minifans on 5s, weight 2580gr
Emile's has 2 jepe spiderfans (90mm) on 6s, weight appr 3300gr


Pascal
Old Mar 05, 2006, 03:28 PM
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Emile, I am sure yours will fly even better WITH ailerons installed ...
Old Mar 05, 2006, 05:12 PM
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Hi Herb,

I sure hope it will ... we will know it in about 2 weeks, because tomorrow i'm going on Holiday.

BTW the 3Wind JéPé Spiderfans that i have mounted in this Rafale are originally from JéPé's F4 Phantom that he crashed during takeoff a few years ago. (lets call it Recycling of nice Equipement).

Cya Laterzzzz,
Emile
Last edited by Emile; Mar 05, 2006 at 05:21 PM.
Old Mar 05, 2006, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodebaron51
Yes, both from aeronaut!

Mine has 2 minifans on 5s, weight 2580gr
Emile's has 2 jepe spiderfans (90mm) on 6s, weight appr 3300gr


Pascal
Hi Pascal,
5S hhmmmzzzz did I mis something this last weekend????
I thought youre were using 4S batterypack or not?

Grtz,
Heino
Old Mar 06, 2006, 02:23 AM
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Need 4 Speed :-)
Ehhhhh.... Heino, thanx... Indeed... I'm using 4S

Pascal
Old Mar 10, 2006, 05:42 PM
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Hello RodeBaron51,

I see your rafale has 2 MiniFAns. Why did you put 70mm Fan when the Rafala can accept 90mm FANs ?

It looks like extra work (originaly the rafale is made for 90mm Fans ? So intake has to be midified ?) for less efficiency ( a 70mm FAN a less efficient than 90mm FAN ? Isn't it ?)

I ask the question, because I have the opportunity to buy a second hand rafale at a very good price, but it is built with 2 480 Fans + Mega 16/15/3 !! So I don't know if those 480 Fans are really a disaventage or instead if it is a good way to have a "light and easy" rafale ?

thanks
Old Mar 18, 2006, 02:21 PM
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New Aeronaut pneumatic retracts for the Aeronaut Rafale ( & Panther) are supposedly a drop in fit, with the same width as the Springair 602's. They do look a bit taller though.

They seem very well made and are rated at 4 kg (8lbs) and look very nice. Note the peculiar air valve. The complete set (as in the picture below but w/o servo) is 179 euros:

http://rc-network.de/forum/showthrea...t=42399&page=2


.
Old Mar 18, 2006, 04:23 PM
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quite interesting ! What is the advertised weight on the complete system ?


Also HERB, as I asked before, is there a chance you can supply us with the patern/masters/drawing of the plywood parts that you have manufactured to built the retract for the Panther ? Can you provide the scale drawing of the parts ? (bmaa@voila.fr)

many thanks in advance
Old Mar 19, 2006, 03:23 AM
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Hi BMAA,

Is it the Rafale from Jepe???? He has the same setup. I did not like his (second hand) price though....

Why i took minifans?

a) I could test them for WeMoTec in the Rafale
b) Setup is good & cheaper than a 99mm setup
c) She fly's beautifull!!!

Pascal
Old Mar 19, 2006, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
Hello RodeBaron51,

I see your rafale has 2 MiniFAns. Why did you put 70mm Fan when the Rafala can accept 90mm FANs ?

It looks like extra work (originaly the rafale is made for 90mm Fans ? So intake has to be midified ?) for less efficiency ( a 70mm FAN a less efficient than 90mm FAN ? Isn't it ?)

I ask the question, because I have the opportunity to buy a second hand rafale at a very good price, but it is built with 2 480 Fans + Mega 16/15/3 !! So I don't know if those 480 Fans are really a disaventage or instead if it is a good way to have a "light and easy" rafale ?

thanks
Pascal wants to proofe, that an Minifan Rafale has a compareable performance to the 90er fans. He has less thrust, about 2100gr (when I remember) but also less weight and costs. And when you compare the 90er with the 69er fans, the propulsion (thrust speed) is above 50m/s mostly the same,
so speed of the jet will be not bad!
But with two Mega 16/15/3 she will be not as powerfull than Pascals Rafale with two Het 2W20.
My info is, that Pascal hadn´t changed the intake aerea, because the org. is a little bit smal for the 90er fans?
Pascal is able to max. the performance with Hacker Motors or NeuMotors (1110/3900KV Proto) to 2,6kg thrust and this mean alot of m/s

Bye
Oliver
Old Mar 19, 2006, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ost
NeuMotors (1110/3900KV Proto) to 2,6kg thrust and this mean alot of m/s

Bye
Oliver
oh its a prototype! i was looking at Neumotors site for them
Old Mar 19, 2006, 06:07 AM
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Look at this swiss thread:
http://www.eflight.ch/forum/viewtopi...r=asc&start=30
and the grafiks from EPower (thanks Norbert

Bye
Oliver
Old Mar 19, 2006, 03:08 PM
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YES reedbaron, it is the plane from JEPE.
Old Mar 21, 2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
What is the advertised weight on the complete system ? ... Also Herb is there a chance you can supply us with the pattern/masters/drawing of the plywood parts that you have manufactured to built the retract for the Panther ? ...
I haven't kept the patterns, sorry. But it will take you a few minutes to redo them, please look at the posted pictures, they are self-explanatory. The Panther fuse is used to make the paper patterns.

The weight of the new Aeronaut pneumatic retracts is comparable to the Springairs 602. I think that's around 6.5 oz complete but w/o mounting blocks, steeriing & airvalve servos.

Just ran up the Aeronaut Rafale twin Wemo midi fans on a brand new 6S (1P) Hyperion 3700 20C pack (one single 6S pack for both motors). 1960 Watts, 98 A and a phenomenal 3.3V / cell under load. Half throttle is well below 20C. After the short test run the pack was still close to room temperature - but the 12 ga wires were warm .

Weight loss in the Rafale is around 19oz (0.54kg) over the original 6S2P Kokam 3200 HD pack setup , which was 3.58kg.


.
Last edited by Herb; Mar 21, 2006 at 04:10 PM.
Old Mar 21, 2006, 04:40 PM
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Hyperions = Polyquest ?


Are the hyperions 3700 the exact same cells than the Polyquest 3700 ? (just a rebranding ?) what is the weight of a hyperion 6s pack ?


OH by the way I have a new bird.




And I also tested my kerozene Kolibri, but this one will go into the Panther ( special version : Aramid+flaps ) that I received from Aeronaut.

http://www.bmichels.com/Images/Test_kolibri.jpg


Yes your reading is correct : + 240.000 rpm (iddle is at 110.000 rpm)



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