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Jan 20, 2020, 12:43 PM
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I used a 11-6 and also a 12-6 depending on wind and weather. It really flew nice and slow on a windless evening in the summer on the 12-6. I believe they were Rev-up wood props.
Curt
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Jan 20, 2020, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visualg
@triflyer.. Can I get a scan / copy of that second page.. I'm working on building this one. Lost with the riggin on in...
Here's a place you can get the joy version.
2nd page has very good drawings of the rigging.

https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=80549
Jan 20, 2020, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triflyer
I used a 11-6 and also a 12-6 depending on wind and weather. It really flew nice and slow on a windless evening in the summer on the 12-6. I believe they were Rev-up wood props.
Curt
After watching the scariot, I mean bleriot, fighting the rollers coming off of the tree line, I guess you know why I'm thinking twice about the 45. Not a lot of room to turn around below the tree tops.
I guess I'll make up my mind after I get the jenny framed up.
After measuring where to put the firewall, I can see that the 45 at the front of the mount and the 65 at the back will put the prop in the same place.
Right now I'm favoring the 65 because I've heard that jenny tends to be tail heavy and the 65 is 4 or 5 oz heavier. That way I could move the radio farther back to make room for an 8oz tank.

It looks like aerodrome used the outline of the joy jenny, but updated the construction techniques.
The construction of the Joy Jenny is a fright.
They show the interplane struts glued to the spar and the rib where they form a corner!
How are you supposed to cover the wing with 8 struts sticking up.
I'm gonna have to do a lot of modding...
Jan 20, 2020, 09:24 PM
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Probably what you do is cover the bottom of the top wing then the top of the bottom wing, jig the wings then glue the struts in place. All that's left is to cover the top of top wing and bottom of bottom wing. I did that when I built a Curtiss 'Pusher'.
Jan 20, 2020, 09:26 PM
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clever (but tedious)
Aerodrome glues tabs to the ribs for strut screws.
I prefer hardwood blocks with L shaped brass tabs screwed on.
Jan 25, 2020, 08:26 PM
Registered User
The Aerodrome method is very easy to do and works quite well. I have used this method on many WWI planes without a problem
However, the rib that strut mounting plate glues onto should be made of 3/32 5 ply plywood instead of balsa as the plans/kit shows and the mounting plate/ tab should be 1/8 thick, also of 5 ply. Lite ply for this application is not strong enough. The mounting plate should glue onto the top or against the basswood spars on the bottom wing and on the bottom of the basswood spars on the top wing.
You will have to notch the spars , particularly on the bottom of the top wing, to fit the mounting plates so that they are flush with the bottom of the rib. The mounting plate should be glued to the spars using a balsa filler if needed between the plate and spar on the bottom wing. Use sheet metal screws to mount the strut mounting brackets. The flying/landing wires give the wing and it's structure the strength it needs. This set up is plenty strong enough. Because the wings come off as an assembly, you will never have to remove the screws holding the struts to wing and worry about stripping out the screws.
Curt
Jan 26, 2020, 03:46 PM
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Thanks for the details and recommendations.
I was thinking about doing that but had trouble with a simple way of attaching flying wires.
If I use a hard block in the wing with an L shaped piece of brass. (would still attach with wood screw at the strut) I could slip a second piece of brass between the L and the block for attaching wires.
very simple and it'll be easier to cover over than around.
As for the kingposts out on the top wing, I'd like to do the hardwood block with a drilled hole to fit music wire that also goes into a hole in the bottom of the kingpost. (the flying wire would hold the post down)

Nick
Jan 26, 2020, 08:25 PM
Registered User
For many years I have attached and cabled struts using the following method. It is not scale in the "purist" sense of things, but it works fine for most of us.

On 1/6 scale or smaller planes I use Dubro landing gear brackets bent to an "L" shape for strut mounts and are held onto the strut by 2-56 screw, nut and washer.
The strut is mounted to the ply mounting plate on top of the rib using a sheet metal screw.
Before screwing the strut in place on wing put the larger hole of a flat 2 hole solder lug between the bracket and ply mounting plate.
Then screw down a sheet metal screw so it holds the solder lug in place under strut bracket.
This done on both ends of each wing strut
Using control line steel cable, attach the cable to the solder lug mounted at bottom of the strut by crimping the cable together thru the solder lug's small hole using a cable connector also made by Dubro.
On the other end of the cable use a 2-56 Dubro rigging coupler that connects to cable by using a cable connector. Make sure cable is measured to about the appropriate length when connected to the opposing strut's upper solder lug.
Then thread a 2-56 nut on a Dubro rigging coupler and a 2-56 metal clevis (Sullivan or Dubro) about half way onto the rigging coupler.
Connect the clevis/ rigging coupler assembly to the upper solder lug small hole on the opposing strut.
Slip cable connector onto the cable followed by the rigging coupler assembly and pull it taunt.
With the cable connector pulled up within 1/8 of the solder lug, crimp the connector.
Final adjustment can be made by loosening or tightening the clevis and then locking with the 2-56 nut.
With this set up you will not have "work" the covering around any protruding brackets or screws.
Not all the struts will need to have the adjustable link on them. Normally only the ones that help keep the wing attached to fuselage or cabane struts need to be adjusted. The adjustable links do not have to be at the top, It just looks a better.
The rest can just use cable connectors on both ends of cable and they will just need to be taunted a bit.
If you cannot find appropriate solder lugs or need a special cable attaching lug ( maybe for two cables at one mounting) you can make these out of brass sheet.
Remember. You do not want to overbuild these brackets or used to strong of cables. You will prefer that the cables or the lugs break on a rough landing versus a wing or fuselage. I carry spare cable,connectors, clevises and solder lugs just in case they do break. It is very easy to repair at the field.
I believe that Aerodrome intended for the wires to be hook up in this manner.
The picture of my Nieuport 24, below might give you a better idea as to how this procedure is done. The cables are not all adjusted yet on this plane
Last edited by triflyer; Jan 26, 2020 at 10:12 PM. Reason: made mistake
Jan 27, 2020, 09:27 AM
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Been talking to the guys over in the Saito thread and the general consensus is that the 8000 rpm I'm getting on my 11/6 MAS is way low for a 45s. So sometime during the winter, I'm going to disassemble and see if I can find what's wrong. The compression is slightly weaker than most so I'll start by looking at the cylinder/ring and valves for wear and crud buildup.
Maybe I'll be able to use it if I can squeeze 93K or so out of her on the test stand.

I used a very similar wiring method on my other bipes.
except since they're all large, I use 1/32" x 1/4" brass strip for the Ls.
for the wires, I use 100 lb nylon coated fishing leader (steel) with dubro brass threaded pushrod ends with steel clevis.
I squeeze the unthreaded end in a vise to flatten it then drill a hole for the wire.
The nylon coating can be heated to bond to it's self after you've crimped it, plus the coating makes the wires easier to see.
Zero failures since '88.
Jan 27, 2020, 01:32 PM
Registered User
Yep, Your method is great for large planes that have are heavier and have more stress on the wings.
I found that on Saito's it is easy to set the cam off by one tooth if you do not have a cam locating tool. This can cause the engine not to achieve higher RPM's and can lower the compression a bit.
This is a mistake I have made and it is easy to fix.
I now have the tool.
Just a thought.............
Curt
Jan 27, 2020, 04:46 PM
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Wow!
I never even thought of that.
Appreciate it.
Jan 28, 2020, 07:04 PM
Registered User
I was just watching the video of your Bleriot. It is a beautiful looking plane on the ground and in the air. It flies very much like the full scale , slow and on the edge of stalling. I believe that you would not be happy if you put anything larger than the Saito .45 in it. The full scale would not do any type of aerobatic maneuvers ( at least on purpose) because it was critically under powered also. It was obvious that you were fighting the wind and you were doing a commendable job of taming it. Many years ago I saw one of these flying at Rhinebeck and it could hardly get off the ground. It seemed like it was flying no faster than 25 MPH. Your Bleriot flies very similar to the Jenny and it is an acquired skill to fly either of these two planes on windy days! The Bleriot will be a very satisfying airplane to fly on a nice calm sunny evening in the summer just putt-putting around for the other flyers to admire.
If it was my plane, I would add a bit more nose weight to calm down what looks like it's nose pitching up on the edge of a stall. It may be more pronounced as you burn more fuel. It is always better to be nose heavy on a plane that has lots of drag caused by flying wires, complicated landing gear sticking out and open frame work.
Nice Job!
Curt
Jan 28, 2020, 07:49 PM
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Thanks!
The CG is now about 1/2" ahead of the plans location because I already have the 70 on the nose. (the vid is also on youtube)
The vid will probably surprise you. It's faster at full throttle. And the takeoff was at full throttle out of nervousness. But with the 14/6 prop I can now take off around 1/2 - 3/4 throttle for a leisurely climb over the trees, then we fly around about 1/3.
Mainly because we don't have calm days during the afternoon and old eyeballs don't see well when it's late.
Anyway, if you look carefully at the first vid you'll notice the only time it's struggling is along the treeline where the rotors form and push it down, But had to fly there because our runway is a narrow strip in the forest and you can't fly around till you get above them.

As far as the Jenny goes, I'm hoping to find out why the 45 is 1000 rpm low when I get a chance to poke around inside.
If I can get it to turn 9000 I'll probably start out with the 45 on the Jenny. I hope the Jenny glides better, when we cut the throttle the bleriot noses almost straight down no matter what you do with the elevator. On every maiden, I usually cut the throttle from altitude to see how to fly the pattern if I lose the engine. With the bleriot you can dive straight down from 200 feet and still not be able to level off. Makes adjusting the low needle seem more important
Last edited by taildragger1589; Jan 28, 2020 at 07:55 PM.
Jan 28, 2020, 09:50 PM
Registered User
Wow! That is a problem. The Jenny will glide OK if you have the wing incidences set correctly. It doesn't like a glider, but it will not drop like the Bleriot.
Curt
Jan 28, 2020, 10:23 PM
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That's good, if there's any glide at all you can always dive to the landing.
If I remember the Jenny incidence is 0,0,0,
The bleriot nonglide was completely unexpected, glad the engine is a good one.


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