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Sep 19, 2019, 10:24 AM
A man with too many toys
Just googled how to make nitromethane.

"Nitromethane is produced industrially by combining propane and nitric acid in the gas phase at 350450 C (662842 F)."

Sounds like a very dangerous process!

Propane and nitric acid at 800 degrees F - That's crazy

.
Last edited by RC Man; Sep 19, 2019 at 03:55 PM.
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Sep 19, 2019, 02:40 PM
Dinosaur
Twodor's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Man
A number of years back some were experimenting with other Nitro compounds. I don't remember the name but as I recall it was less expensive and had good performance, better than methanol only. It might have been nitroethane.

Back in the day ( you can always tell its an old guy when you read that), back in the day, drag racers used nitrobenzene instead of methane. It was great stuff and a power maker and engine exhaust smelled exactly like Kiwi shoe polish. Unfortunately they discovered that it was a pretty nasty carcinogen and outlawed its use as a fuel additive. Is that what you were thinking about?

Tom
Sep 19, 2019, 03:53 PM
A man with too many toys
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twodor
Back in the day ( you can always tell its an old guy when you read that), back in the day, drag racers used nitrobenzene instead of methane. It was great stuff and a power maker and engine exhaust smelled exactly like Kiwi shoe polish. Unfortunately they discovered that it was a pretty nasty carcinogen and outlawed its use as a fuel additive. Is that what you were thinking about?

Tom
No I was thinking of something about 15-20 years back when US companies stopped making nitromethane.

I remember way back when I was a kid that some would use fuel that smelled like shoe polish for control line racing. That was very toxic and banned - that way way back in the 50's

.
Sep 19, 2019, 05:23 PM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
Well when you go over 50% nitromethane in the glow fuel you have to add stuff like propylene oxide to the fuel. They would add a pinch of acetone to the glow fuel too. Maybe 2% to 3% at most. 65$% nitromethane, 15% propylene oxide and 2% to 3% acetone, the rest is methanol and oil. Then hope your engine holds together as it gets a huge boost in power. Sort of like using rocket fuel in a engine. Amyl Acetate is another substitute for acetone too.

Some of the Dynajet guys used to use straight nitromethane with a little propylene oxide added so they could get it to ignite easier. That is probably as close to setting off a stick of dynamite in your hands as you can get. They may have used straight propylene oxide in the Dynajets too. I vaguely remember something about that. I have some notes scribbled down about someone using 80% propylene oxide and 20% methanol in dynajets.

Some guys have used propylene oxide for go kart racing. There are articles out there about using propylene oxide in the engines. It seems to help low speed performance and torque, but does little to nothing at high speed. They were running 2% to 10% propylene oxide in the fuel.
Last edited by earlwb; Sep 19, 2019 at 05:25 PM. Reason: typo
Sep 20, 2019, 09:45 AM
Need more speed!
Chuppster's Avatar
Thread OP
Alright, I have 50/50 nitro/meth coming at some point (local dealer has to get enough pails to justify an order). Methanol is no problem, and I found a source for Castor Oil but it's $35/gallon shipped. I can't seem to do any better elsewhere. Anyone have any experience buying Castor Oil? Is there a good, less expensive substitute out there? I've heard many glow fuel makers use synthetic or blend with synthetic.

All this brings my cost down to about $22/gallon for 15% nitro 19% castor oil, which saves about $7/gallon buying the fuel locally. That's not terrible but I'd still like to get it cheaper if possible. I think that right now the only factor I can move is the oil, and it's 60% the cost per oz of the Nitro.
Sep 20, 2019, 11:13 AM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
Bulk apothecary: https://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-i...ls/castor-oil/

There's another guy here on RC Groups who makes fuel from this oil.
Sep 20, 2019, 11:28 AM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
I put in an order for 8 pounds of castor oil (1 gallon jug) and the shipping was $17. That comes to about $36 per gallon. Ordering 4 jugs in a case has a shipping charge that is still ridiculous but not nearly as bad. That order comes out to $24.22. If you want 20% oil in your fuel, four gallons of castor is good for 20 gallons of fuel, of which the oil would cost $4.44 per gallon of fuel.

They don't show you the shipping charges right away. I had to log into paypal to check the shipping, but I didn't complete the order.
Sep 20, 2019, 11:29 AM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
I left my payment window open without completing it, and I got an email from paypal while writing the previous post asking me if I want to complete the order. They certainly are on top of things, aren't they?
Sep 20, 2019, 11:48 AM
Need more speed!
Chuppster's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsaworkbench
I put in an order for 8 pounds of castor oil (1 gallon jug) and the shipping was $17. That comes to about $36 per gallon. Ordering 4 jugs in a case has a shipping charge that is still ridiculous but not nearly as bad. That order comes out to $24.22. If you want 20% oil in your fuel, four gallons of castor is good for 20 gallons of fuel, of which the oil would cost $4.44 per gallon of fuel.

They don't show you the shipping charges right away. I had to log into paypal to check the shipping, but I didn't complete the order.
That's where I'm looking to order from. As this is somewhat of a "trial run" I'm not ready to commit to the large container, but I'll probably get a gallon. Just wish I could get a gallon for the same price locally so I don't have to ship it.
Sep 20, 2019, 01:34 PM
A man with a plan
Balsaworkbench's Avatar
I don't remember the name of the guy who buys castor oil from Bulk Apothecary, but he frequents the Club Saito thread in the Engines forum. If you ask there he will probably give you a review.
Sep 20, 2019, 06:37 PM
Registered User
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsaworkbench
I don't remember the name of the guy who buys castor oil from Bulk Apothecary, but he frequents the Club Saito thread in the Engines forum. If you ask there he will probably give you a review.
I have purchased and used their castor oil as a supplement to my 2 stroke fuel. I use a Klotz Super Techniplate, castor mix to achieve a 50/50 synthetic castor blend. I have had no issues with the operation of my 2 stroke engines.

Regards
Dennis
Sep 20, 2019, 07:28 PM
Need more speed!
Chuppster's Avatar
Thread OP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Try
I have purchased and used their castor oil as a supplement to my 2 stroke fuel. I use a Klotz Super Techniplate, castor mix to achieve a 50/50 synthetic castor blend. I have had no issues with the operation of my 2 stroke engines.

Regards
Dennis
Well, Klotz is more expensive than Castor Oil, so I might as well go with 100 castor then.
Sep 20, 2019, 09:49 PM
If it flies, I can crash it.
rocketsled666's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balsaworkbench
I left my payment window open without completing it, and I got an email from paypal while writing the previous post asking me if I want to complete the order. They certainly are on top of things, aren't they?
Used to be a good technique for some websites like HK. Add some stuff to your cart but don't check out. Leave the webpage open. Wait a couple of days, get an offer at a lower price if you'll only please just check out now...

As for PayPal being on top of things, though, it's in their own self interest. Lost connections happen all the time. If they didn't periodically do some housekeeping, they'd have bazillions of orphaned transactions plugging up the works. Just arbitrarily closing them out when they were idle too long would have users in an uproar. So they give you a poke when they're starting to get impatient. Probably, if you ignore the poke a few times they'll give up on your and time out the transaction so they aren't carrying unnecessary "deadweight" on their servers.

Regarding local NM, you said you tried speed shops. Did you ask them for contact information for any racers that buy NM from the shop? Someone who's buying the larger bulk supply might be happy to decant you a half gallon or gallon. Especially because it's got a shelf life, and racers always buy a bit more than they need.

I don't fly wet power anymore myself, but I always enjoy a trip to the drag strip because it smells so much like the model airplanes I flew when I was a kid... and if there's a local drag strip nearby, odds are you could find what you need there on race days.
Sep 20, 2019, 11:40 PM
Registered User
I have been using torco brand chinese Nitromethane. I checked it and its 99.4% pure. Can be purchased online by the gallon. I still have about 4 gallons of the last of the US made stuff......I think Ill hang on to that.
Sep 21, 2019, 08:28 AM
Registered User
earlwb's Avatar
That is nice to know about the Torco brand they are selling.


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